I grew up in Japan but have been living in the US for many years and forgotten a lot of my native language. I don’t remember anyone around me ever saying “全然ある” while I was living there. I read some articles saying it’s been used historically, but every time I hear it, it sounds very strange. To me, it should be 全然ない．I’m wondering it might be almost like a 東京訛り or Japanese language has evolved? Can someone explain this to me?
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I’ve found sites like https://hinative.com/ to be a better resource for these types of questions that would be better answered by natives speakers.
I mean, everyone’s speech has their own language quirks. I think I’ve seen that expression before. It’s pretty clear what the meaning is, so whether you use it or not is up to you. Determining what is “standard” is pretty futile imo
Jisho.org lists the use of [全然](https://jisho.org/search/%E5%85%A8%E7%84%B6) as an intensifier in positive contexts as “colloquial”.
I’m not a native speaker, but I’ve definitely heard it before.
Not a native speaker, so keep that in mind. Afaik, 全然 is “correctly” used with a negation following it, as you said (and that’s the only way I’ve seen it taught to learners), but you actually hear phrases like 全然大丈夫 or 全然いいよ pretty often in a colloquial setting.
A quick google search gives [this](https://news.mynavi.jp/article/20180301-590073/#:~:text=%E3%80%8C%E5%85%A8%E7%84%B6%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AE%E4%BD%BF%E3%81%84%E6%96%B9%E3%81%A8%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%AF,%E3%81%AE%E3%81%A7%E3%81%AF%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%E3%81%A7%E3%81%97%E3%82%87%E3%81%86%E3%81%8B%E3%80%82), so it doesn’t seem to be an uncommon sentiment to think that it’s kinda weird.
I had an impression that my generation invented it in 90’s when I was in elem school, just because I remember us starting to use it wrongly on purpose. But I was just a kid in elem school so I don’t know.. I’m pretty sure that it was also started to be used in pop culture but in informal context, so my guess is that it wasn’t regional. I’m from Fukuoks city btw. And maybe you can get more answer in r/AskAJapanese. (You can post this in Japanese for more reactions from natives.)
[This article is pretty interesting](https://style.nikkei.com/article/DGXBZO37057770W1A201C1000000/). It says the 全然’s proper rule as it is defined today, which allows only negative word to follow, was not existent in 1930’s (as there were no such rules in Japanese used in published books), but that type started to emerge only from 50’s onward. So it seems like it’s actually not easy to determine when exactly this relaxed usage of 全然 started to be used.
I’m in my 30s now and not interested in new and edgy expressions with grammatical error anymore, although I use expression like 全然いいよ very liberally, if it weren’t for rather formal situations. I won’t be surprised nor correct if younger guys used that in every occasion. And it’s hard to imagine the generation above certain age using this. No way for people in their 60s and above in my image, but I don’t know the real number.
全然おk全然ある全然XX is a trendy usage since like 5 years ago?
Dont just read textbooks and dictionaries. Zenzen ok
全然問題ない、全然大丈夫。
全然そんなことない、全然ある。
全然 doesn’t loose the 打ち消し meaning, it’s just hidden away.
Very interesting question and a fascinating conversation; I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments. I’m an American who lived in Sapporo and learned Japanese through immersion in the early/mid 1970s (kinda by accident, but the backstory doesn’t matter), so reading about the ongoing (and inevitable) evolution in the colloquial language really strikes me. Great post!
Concurring with those who are suggesting 全然 can be used with words like 大丈夫, and not only by teens, if nevertheless very informally. However with ある I would more readily expect it to be 絶対ある (*zettai aru*).
It means the opposite — “it totally exists” or however you want to translate that. It’s somewhat casual but this expression (全然 + positive verb to mean “totally,” “absolutely”) was already very common when I was in Japan over ten years ago.
I hope it’s okay to comment on my post. I just saw this article and it pretty much explains why I felt uncomfortable when hearing someone say this.
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%A8%E7%84%B6
Please read this if you’re interested.
It talks about the orrect usage, usage that requires attention, and incorrect usage of this expression.
It also says [The 1960 course of study clearly states that “at all, there are negative words.”]. That’s when I was growing up.
Thank you for helping me to everyone who commented. Thank you also for not making fun of me for forgetting parts of my own native language. I’m grateful for all the help I received.
I can totally relate you. When I first heard 全然ある a couple of decades ago I was like “what does it mean? how come you don’t use 全然 for negation? it sounds so incongruous to me” but you know what, I became OK with it because many people started to use it.