Hi everyone,
I’m considering buying a second-hand house that is situated off the side of a 1.9m wide public stairs. The land itself contains a 3m wide alley that is 10m long at the entrance [similar to this first image, but with stairs instead of a road at the front](https://i0.wp.com/japanpropertycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Saikenchiku-fuka-land-1.jpg?w=840&ssl=1).
There is road access at the base of the stairs, but no parking nearby that I can see.
1) Does anyone have any experience of renovating or rebuilding on such a land? I understand that it would cost more due to difficult access – how much more would it cost compared to a building in normal situations?
2) The house is almost 50 years old. It seems solid however I can see water marks on the ceiling of the first floor. The floors are currently mostly carpeted so we cannot see the situation of the flooring underneath. The realtor said the house has no history of water leakage or termites, but also said that the owner will not be liable for any damages. How can we ensure that there are no damages to the house structure?
3) We are very new to home ownership / dealing with realtors. We are not sure if we can afford renovations right away but would like to eventually. Should we approach builders to get quotes for the future before we commit? What would you suggest as the next steps if we are considering this house?
The reason we are considering this place is because it is close enough to station that we will not need a car, and because of its age/access issues, it is cheaper than other houses in the area.
by takooo_takoyaki
17 comments
To be honest it sounds like a nightmare in the making. So the access to this house is a 10 m long alley away from a staircase, and the closest any vehicle can get is a road at the bottom of the staircase?
Construction, moving, deliveries, emergency vehicle access all will have issues.
Water damage visible, 50 years old, and carpets? It’s pretty strange to have everything carpeted in Japan, so I would definitely question what they are hiding underneath.
I would drop this property like a hot potato just from the sound of it.
Before we bought ours we had a surveyor/inspector come and check it out. They checked for the usual problems – termites, damp, subsidence, cracks in the foundations etc. I just did a quick google and it looks like [this company provides such a service](https://www.anest.net/kodate/k_tyuko.html).
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2. It seems solid until it collapses in an earthquake. I would not feel safe living in a 50 year old house in Japan.
Two things if your going to buy:
Be prepared to never be able to sell this property. Most likely there is no exit for this property and you’re going to have to pay property tax on this forever unless you flatten the building and sell the land to a neighbor.
Be prepared to spend double what your renovation quote is. Most renovation estimates are for surface level stuff, new kitchen, new title, etc. be prepared for the phone call when they start work and inevitable find more things they need to fix to install your kitchen. Unless your hire a real architect and have them independently turn the property upside down your not going to get a good idea about the foundation, pillars, roof etc. at the highest level most people will generally say wood used for houses has a 30-40 year life. Even steel reinforced concrete has a 50 year life. Even if your property has no current damage, most of the marital used to build it is long past its shelf life.
The price is cheap because nobody wants it. You need 2m road access to be permitted to rebuild. So all you could do is renovate. No matter how extensive your renovation it will always be inferior to building fresh.
And with the staircase and no vehicle access even renovations will be a troublesome.
It will be harder to get a loan for this type of land. And harder to sell later.
I’d recommend going further out and buying good quality land instead of trying to buy bad quality land more centrally.
Make sure that the house satisfies modern building code. Older houses may be technically illegal according to modern code. In this case, you will be limited in the ways that you can rebuild or renovate the house.
You won’t be able to rebuild it. That’s why it’s cheap. Properties need road access to legally rebuild.
No, don’t buy an ancient house in the city. There are hundreds of “good deals” spread about Kanto. If it’s not been purchased, there’s a reason. Everyone has the same thinking as you.
this is a horrible idea
as it has no access to the road you will not be able to rebuild, which knocks off the value by probably 2/3 or more
also with access this narrow you might not be able to even get renovations done
a house this old will have plumbing, electrical issues for sure, it might not be able to handle modern AC and heating, plus it will be a nightmare to fix anything because of no road access
the only case this purchase make sense if that you already own land next to this parcel and your land has sufficient access, or you think you can also buy the house next door, knock both houses down and build a new one
>1) Does anyone have any experience of renovating or rebuilding on such a land? I understand that it would cost more due to difficult access – how much more would it cost compared to a building in normal situations?
You can’t rebuild, that’s why it’s so inexpensive, because they aren’t allowing the people who own that type of land to rebuild on it.
If you’re serious about it renovation is possible but get multiple bids outlining EVERYTHING before you actually buy it. Be aware that changes you make after you sign a contract are going to come at a HUGE cost. This is normal in construction, once you’ve got plans/materials/contractors set up any changes the customer makes come at a huge premium because it seriously impacts your cost structures.
It might be a unique situation, but without road access it might be one of those houses that can’t be rebuilt. If that’s the case you have to pray nothing ever happens to it. Unless it’s free I’d pass.
> 1) Does anyone have any experience of renovating or rebuilding on such a land? I understand that it would cost more due to difficult access – how much more would it cost compared to a building in normal situations?
It really depends what you’d be doing. Anything that needs heavy equipment is going to be bad. Anything that doesn’t need heavy equipment but just needs stuff brought up to the house is going to need carrying up the stairs. I vaguely recall that one of the renovation companies I spoke to worried (wrongly) that they couldn’t get *big* trucks up to my house and wanted to add a million yen to the total cost if it turned out that they couldn’t. (They quoted 30 million total or something silly, we got it done for way less).
> 2) The house is almost 50 years old. It seems solid however I can see water marks on the ceiling of the first floor. The floors are currently mostly carpeted so we cannot see the situation of the flooring underneath. The realtor said the house has no history of water leakage or termites, but also said that the owner will not be liable for any damages. How can we ensure that there are no damages to the house structure?
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> 3) We are very new to home ownership / dealing with realtors. We are not sure if we can afford renovations right away but would like to eventually. Should we approach builders to get quotes for the future before we commit? What would you suggest as the next steps if we are considering this house?
I would definitely not buy the house without you or someone being able to look at the floors. Since you can’t rebuild (because of the road access issue) you need it to be livable, and if the floors are all rotted to shit then it may not be livable.
If you really like the house, what I would suggest would be to get some builders to look at the house and give you a general ballpark number on getting it minimally livable, then maybe also have some conversations about making it nicer and how much that would cost. To give you an estimate they’ll need to look at the house properly, which will require the permission of the owner. If it’s been unsold for a while I think there’s a good chance you’ll get permission, and they’re more likely to let a professional poke around at the floors than a random potential buyer.
If I’m not mistaken, by the sounds of it this is “no rebuild” land. Which means it’s illegal to knock down the building and construct something new.
The purpose of the No Rebuild land rule, which states a property must have at minimum 2m of direct street frontage before demolition and reconstruction is allowed, is to encourage eventually getting rid of these old fire hazard/poorly accessible buildings altogether.
The idea being that you’d need to buy the no-rebuild land and ALSO any piece of adjacent land that does have the requisite street frontage >=2m and *apply to officially combine these pieces of land together* in order to be able to build new. Thus overall, over time, reducing the number of these shitty old buildings in existence…
2) As others said you need to do an inspection. It costs 38500yen, unless it’s bigger than 200m2, but they will check it thoroughly. Very thoroughly. I think in this case it’s a must especially as you will have to pay extra for renovation due to lack of access by car/truck.
You might also want to consider that in case something happens emergency vehicles will not have access either.
Other than that just get as much info as you can, then think it through and decide for yourself. It’s difficult to decide if it’s worth it or not without even seeing it.
One final thing, if possible visit the house, neighborhood at different times of the day so you can better imagine your life in case you decide to move there.
Having gone through this, you can pretty much rebuild, some part of the building needs to remain however, even if it is just a single pole. Entrance needs more than 2m to the road if you want to completely rebuild. Check if redevelopment is likely in surrounding plots, they may also buy yours.
Please consider what would happen if you need an ambulance.
Seems like a bad investment. Notice your post didnt say anything positive about this place. Them telling you upfront they arent liable for damages is a huge red flag.