Was doing my daily grammar lessons when I came across this. I have never heard of ‘indirect passive’ before, I thought that we should use the passive-causative form when a verb is negatively effecting the subject? Does either one work? Or does it depend on context? The last translation made me laugh so I included it lol.
I think they are just using “indirect passive” to mean what we usually call “passive”. It doesn’t seem to have to do with “causative-passive” at all.
They’re trying to illustrate “suffering passive”. https://www.japanesewithanime.com/2019/08/suffering-passive.html. Suffering passive is a term which term tries to indicate that passive form done by people can be negative if it’s done to you or something you own. Passive doesn’t necessarily mean there is suffering in other cases.
Causative-Passive is more like, you were forced to do something against your will. I don’t think your example has that in it.
If I’m not mistaken, it works like this: Since 食べられる is passive (“being eaten”), the pizza should be to the subject of the verb, and thus use the が (or は) particle.
ピザが食べられた – the pizza was eaten.
Using the を particle instead changes the meaning to indicate that you somehow *suffered* this action being performed *to you* (even tho it was actually done to your pizza)
マイクにピザが食べられた – the pizza was eaten by Mike (neutral sentence)
マイクにピザを食べられた – I got *my* pizza eaten by Mike ! (that gosh darned Mike again ! I hate this guy).
I’m not the biggest fan of Cure Dolly, but I do really like how she explained passive forms. In that you should ultimately think of the passive form as phrasing that something “receives” an action. You received the action of having your pizza eaten. Suffering is one part of receiving action, but ultimately it all relates to “receiving”. Context and particles will shape the connotation.
When Genki introduces the passive form, they also lead with the suffering connotation. But in a lot of my regular reading, I see the passive form in more normal ways than negative.
Like と言われた (“(I) was told…”) is a very common phrase I see a lot whenever someone is recounting events that happened to them.
Also passive-causative is completely different. If I were to read 食べさせられた that implies you or someone else was forced to eat pizza.
What website is this
Would リクられた then be the most literal translation of ‘I was Rick-rolled’?
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Was doing my daily grammar lessons when I came across this. I have never heard of ‘indirect passive’ before, I thought that we should use the passive-causative form when a verb is negatively effecting the subject? Does either one work? Or does it depend on context? The last translation made me laugh so I included it lol.
I think they are just using “indirect passive” to mean what we usually call “passive”. It doesn’t seem to have to do with “causative-passive” at all.
They’re trying to illustrate “suffering passive”. https://www.japanesewithanime.com/2019/08/suffering-passive.html. Suffering passive is a term which term tries to indicate that passive form done by people can be negative if it’s done to you or something you own. Passive doesn’t necessarily mean there is suffering in other cases.
Causative-Passive is more like, you were forced to do something against your will. I don’t think your example has that in it.
If I’m not mistaken, it works like this:
Since 食べられる is passive (“being eaten”), the pizza should be to the subject of the verb, and thus use the が (or は) particle.
ピザが食べられた – the pizza was eaten.
Using the を particle instead changes the meaning to indicate that you somehow *suffered* this action being performed *to you* (even tho it was actually done to your pizza)
マイクにピザが食べられた – the pizza was eaten by Mike (neutral sentence)
マイクにピザを食べられた – I got *my* pizza eaten by Mike ! (that gosh darned Mike again ! I hate this guy).
I’m not the biggest fan of Cure Dolly, but I do really like how she explained passive forms. In that you should ultimately think of the passive form as phrasing that something “receives” an action. You received the action of having your pizza eaten. Suffering is one part of receiving action, but ultimately it all relates to “receiving”. Context and particles will shape the connotation.
When Genki introduces the passive form, they also lead with the suffering connotation. But in a lot of my regular reading, I see the passive form in more normal ways than negative.
Like と言われた (“(I) was told…”) is a very common phrase I see a lot whenever someone is recounting events that happened to them.
Also passive-causative is completely different. If I were to read 食べさせられた that implies you or someone else was forced to eat pizza.
What website is this
Would リクられた then be the most literal translation of ‘I was Rick-rolled’?