A bit of a vent. I think this is the number one complaint of many living in Japan but I’ll preface with the fact I’m comfortable and capable of everyday japanese conversation, but maybe I don’t always use the most natural word choice.
When ordering, I typically don’t use the proper counters or anything. Usually this is fine and no one seems to care, but a few days ago k started the conversation started in japanese with a waiter who forcefully switched to English the moment he could detect I wasn’t native japanese.
This was frustrating because:
A) We were already talking in japanese.
B) I’m Korean. Why switch to a language you aren’t sure I understand when we already established a language I could understand?
C) He got my order wrong because I could not understand his broken English.
This is pretty rare but still happens enough to make me frustrated. I think the only appropriate course of action is to simply stare in bewilderment when they try speaking English until they reluctantly use japanese again.
I get people are proud of their English but it comes off as patronizing. And a lot of times the English is nothing to be proud of.
by hyuunnyy
29 comments
Ok
I don’t get it anymore in the wild, but I do get it at work (big global company). Random people will start to email me in English once they see my foreign name—I don’t see it as malice, just someone who wants to challenge themselves a bit. I’d say let them be unless it is causing major issues in communication, as to which I would ask them to explain in Japanese
If you have a foreign face they will always assume you’re speaking English, and if you try to speak another language, say Italian. They will just assume these are English words they don’t know.
You’re going to get stuck in a logic loop. Might even crash the os.
Just have a smile and speak with confidence.
Don’t be egotistical or aggressive, when they try to confirm your order in English just laugh and say 英語上手
Then repeat your order again in Japanese if you’re not sure they got it.
It’s not rocket science
when they switched to english did you _tell_ them (in japanese) that “actually japanese is ok/better”? ime usually they switch back to japanese after that.
they’re just doing a job and probably a rule of thumb being “non-native = use english” which would be right 90% of the time. in the rare chance that you’re their rare “foreigner of the day” and they _want_ to try out english, just be nice and let them? imo if I took offense, that’s probably projecting my own insecurities.
You could just reply back in Japanese.
I get it mate. I have the same issue. It can be really frustrating.
I can speak pretty good Japanese but not perfect, and sometimes the person i am speaking to will switch to English. Its funny because i will just continue in Japanese while they speak in English lol. Sometimes its very clear that my Japanese is better then their English.
I wouldn’t take it too much to heart and just try laugh it off. I certainly wouldn’t do anything to deliberately be difficult. If you speak Japanese, they probably see it as a safe time to use their English in a real situation.
Don’t let it put you off using Japanese.
tldr; op didn’t like that the waiter did their best to accommodate for the potential lack of japanese understanding.
There’s usually no need to pretend anything. Why not just ask them to use Japanese?
Of course, the bewildered gaze or asking in Japanese what they meant don’t count as pretending 😇
You could compliment them on their English and saying in Japanese, that you are so very sorry, but you cannot speak English and if he would acommadate you with your bad Japanese
I have this girl that keep mistaken ‘I don’t mind’ with ‘I don’t care’ and that make her message sounds very angry. Once I figure it out I think it’s very cute so I keep it that way and she still don’t know about it. Don’t need to be so upset about everything pal!
You could always reply with “優しい日本語でいいですよ”.
I am Chinese-Indonesian, but they always assume I am Japanese because my pronunciation is close to native, so mostly they never speak English with me.
But mostly in tourist spots like Dotonbori, the staffs there always assume you are foreigners if you bring a suitcase. When that happens, I always told them “日本語でいいんですよ”, and they immediately switch to Japanese.
Why didn’t you just keep replying in Japanese?
just tell them in japanese that you don’t speak english. if you act bewildered when they try to use english, and they think you don’t really know japanese, you’re going to end up in a messier situation. don’t play games, they’re just trying to do their job.
I am Japanese and id say i got typical Japanese face and I often pretend like I don’t speak Japanese to avoid annoying convos at like clothing stores when they talk to me
I use this phrase to get out from speaking English
” 英語がちょっと。。。。。。”
works like a charm everytime
I completely understand your frustration.
It gets even worse if you “look foreign”. A lot of people will also think of you as some kind of light entertainment or opportunity to practice their English (regardless of your background of if their English practice is something you’re interested in).
I usually just keep using Japanese and if the other person keeps going I straight up tell them that what they’re doing is rude. A shocking number of people still don’t get it at that point, but I just try to not engage with people who are like this.
This stuff can really get to you with how condescending it is, but unfortunately it’s an “us and them” dichotomy a lot of people operate in, often unconsciously.
A lot of people will tell you to be calm about it, but I really think this kind of stuff hits differently depending on whether English actually is your first language.
I say this every time this topic comes up, but where are you lot finding people who speak English to you?!
Is it a Tokyo thing? I feel like it must be. Staff switching to English has literally never happened to me in Kansai – even when it would’ve been very helpful back when I first arrived haha
Anyway, they’re just being nice so no need to get mad about it imo. He was just trying to accommodate you. Life’s too short to get annoyed by people’s kindness 🙂
The longer you live here the less you care about this kind of stuff. You don’t feel any need for waiters/cashiers/etc. to validate your Japanese proficiency, and just go with the flow instead. They’re just doing their job after all. They probably need to practice English to deal with the increase in tourists that don’t speak a word of Japanese + it’s not always easy to make a quick judgment on the customer’s level of fluency (unless it is actually native level or *extremely* close to being native).
OP are you so shy that you couldn’t tell the waiter to go back to Japanese?
You need to work on your confidence.
> When ordering, I typically don’t use the proper counters or anything.
So you speak broken Japanese but you’re angry about Japanese people’s broken English? *Okaaaaay…*
>When ordering, I typically don’t use the proper counters or anything.
So you are aware that this is more of a skill problem on your side than a malice problem on their side right?
Instead of playing games like pretending to not understand a word of English, maybe just… get good? I guarantee you, this problem will go away as soon as you are able to order your food without grammar mistakes.
Just be certain you speak the language you switch to.
I tried this on a train one time, the older gentleman sitting next to me tried to strike up a conversation in English but I was tired and two-pints tipsy and really just wanted to nap so I pulled the old University-level Russian out of the back of my head and said “sorry, I don’t speak English.”
I had used the trick before, but this time it backfired.
_He responded to me in Russian,_ “wow, I hardly meet any Russians! I used to work at the embassy in Soviet Moscow! What part of Russia are you from?”
Now instead of avoiding and sleeping, I had to desperately remember all of my old Russian lessons and play up the tipsy angle. At one point he said “I can’t quite place your accent” so I told him I was from Ekaterinburg (which was the largest city I could think of that I hoped he’d not visited from Moscow)and said “we all talk like that there.”
I think he bought it? Still, it ruined my quiet ride home.
Sorry to say sounds like your Japanese was really bad
As a Spanish speaker, I do exactly this when I want to practice. If they speak Spanish well I’ll be damn and let’s have a conversation.
I knew an Italian who genuinely could not understand English and spoke excellent Japanese… he was always getting into this predicament but even without pretending, he could only engage with people in Japanese.
IMHO part of the problem is that Japanese people aren’t used to hearing their language mangled by semi-fluent or semi-literate foreign people. As soon as they hear something that is not ‘on script’, they shut down, especially if it is coming out of a non-Japanese looking face. We English speakers, whether native or not, are used to hearing our language used as a tool to communicate meaning. We look past small errors and grammar and try to find common ground. The Japanese simply aren’t used to doing this.
>B) I’m Korean. Why switch to a language you aren’t sure I understand when we already established a language I could understand?
You probably speak Japanese with an American/English/Australian accent so they figured you are a native English speaker.
Koreans speaking Japanese usually have that Korean accent, where the “zu” sounds like “ju” among other things.
Honestly, though, your Japanese may just not be that good. Usually Japanese people are so happy if you speak Japanese because they don’t speak English, so they will gladly keep speaking to you in Japanese.
It’s not like Germany, Netherlands, or the Nordic countries, where as soon as you order something they reply back to you in perfect English and you can never practice the language. lol
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> people are proud of their English
No. This is not it.
I worked at a restaurant where I was the only person who spoke English, and they would grab me at the quickest sight of anyone that didn’t look 100% Japanese.
They would all absolutely LOATHE speaking English and no one had any confidence in their English ability.
This is not about pride. They don’t WANT to speak English to you.
They are taught that “if a human being doesn’t speak fluent Japanese, then they must be an English speaker and will complain to your boss if you don’t speak to them in perfect English” and so when they hear you speak with a slight accent OR if you look obviously non-Japanese (white etc) THEY FREAK OUT and go into fight or flight mode and they get so far into their own heads about “OMG I NEED TO SPEAK ENGLISH WTF DO I DO IF I CAN’T UNDERSTAND OH NO MY SENPAI IS GONNA BE MAD IF SUDDENLY AN ENGLISH SPEAKING CUSTOMER GETS MAD AND STARTS COMPLAINING THAT I DIDN’T SPEAK WELL ENOUGH OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!”
They are so far into their own head freaking out about your less-than-native Japanese / looks… this is 0% about you and 100% about them freaking out.
Just smile and say “あぁ、日本語で結構ですよ。” and 99% of the time they let out a sigh of relief.
Once I had someone say “いえ、英語の練習がしたいので。。。” and tbh I was not offended at all and spoke English just to give them some practice since they were up front about it.