For example, the word 節約 (せつやく), economizing/saving.
Looking at those 2 kanji and their radicals, I just can’t find a story that makes sense as to why it would mean what it means. Therefore I’m thinking maybe I’m just supposed to accept it as is and learn it by heart. Do you guys think this is okay? And is this how natives memorize kanji and words? Or should I push to find meaning in the radicals for each word?
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I’m currently pretty deep into Wanikani after bailing on RTK. I go through the mnemonic when I first learn a new kanji, and it helps me to learn new vocab, but the mnemonic is a scaffold. Once a word is learned, the mnemonic is no longer necessary. I only go back to the mnemonic to help me with words I keep forgetting.
Phono-Semantic Decomposition only really works on an individual Character level.
Compound words are not always consistently formed in any meaningful way, so you have to learn them through reading and context.
Yes. Actually remembering kanji gets wayyy easier later. Doesn’t feel like much more effort than learning a word in katakana now. Your brain develops the pattern recognition.
I tried learning kanji through radicals and mnemonics (WaniKani) first, but other than lowering the initial barrier of entry to recognize kanji as more than scribbles, sub-kanji level mnemonics weren’t very useful to me. I feel that learning common words (especially adjectives) where certain kanji are central to the meaning is a lot more worthwhile, and in the majority of the cases the meaning can be derived from the individual kanji in some way.
節約 I would also have problems with, but mostly because of the 節 kanji. 約 is fine and works super well in words like 予約、契約, etc.
Whether to use a mnemonic story I would do the time math – if it takes me far less time to learn the reading and an approximate meaning in context, and it usually does, I wouldn’t bother with constructing a mnemonic story :).
I learned my first 100 or so kanji with stories. Was alright for getting me started but after that I stopped doing it and just learned by looking at them. I know over 2500 kanji right now. Never felt a need for a story.
There’s a number of things that make it easier to learn kanji once you have more experience. For example 麒麟 has 鹿 (deer) on the left side associating it with a meaning and 其 giving the き reading and the same RHS as 隣 giving it りん reading (I don’t think that comes by itself ever?) and the word itself is きりん which is giraffe. This isn’t giving it a story in the sense of mnemonics because this is how the kanji was probably made/chosen. Once you learn the basic kanji their derivatives become predictable and easier to remember.
And the way natives memorise things isn’t necessarily the best for us. I’m pretty sure they write things over and over but I have never written kanji down for practice. And yes, I can write most of them if I want to from memory though they are usually a bit ugly because of awkward spacing and stuff.
節 is related to the notion of conservation: 節制, 節電, 節水, 節度
約 is related to the notion of cutting down luxuries: 倹約. It is also related to “convergence” (要約, 集約) and “simplification” (約分, 約5km “approx 5 kilometre”). All of these three share a “core vibe” of “taking a subset of.”
If you are going to put in the effort of memorizing it hard without “tricks” like mnemonics, you might as well theorize the kanjis’ concepts like a linguist so that you get the most words stuck in your memory out of that same effort.
I went through the RTK book and focused on making stories as an intermediate learner. I quickly realized that I already knew what the individual kanji “meant” from the vocab I’ve learned for years. I stopped wasting my time and just kept learning the kanji in context of words. To each his own, but I’d recommend just learning words and picking up kanji from there
Depends on the story/mnemonics. I tend to ignore the extremely corny ones and go with memorization
Yeah, the last couple hundred jouyou kanji I just skipped making stories. Now it’s been so long I hardly even remember any of my stories. Only the kanji are left.
Dropped them after the first 500 or so but I think I’ll probably go back and make some for few dozen ones that dont seem to stick.
One thing the online community did to improve RTK was add a section that includes the additional meanings for a kanji beyond the keyword. On top of that, some resources offer most common words that use each kanji to offer a better sense on how the kanji is used in the written. That, along with keywords, give you what can be ready made mnemonics
In this specific case
* 節 – node, season, period, occasion, verse, clause. Used in 節[ふし] – section; 季節[きせつ] – Season; 関節[かんせつ] – joint; 一節[いっせつ] – passage; 調節[ちょうせつ] – Regulation; 節約[せつやく] – Saving
* 約 – promise, approximately, shrink; Used in 約束[やくそく] – Promise; 約[やく] – about; 契約[けいやく] – Contract; 婚約[こんやく] – engagement,; 予約[よやく] – Reservation; 条約[じょうやく] – Treaty
So 節 is a NODE or section of bamboos, arranged in a network that INSTANTLY transmits messages using SILVER paid STAMPS
約 is a PROMISE that Spiderman made, BOUND by the DROP of Blood he Uncle Ben (or Aunt May) spilled giving the phrase “Great Power must come with Great Responsibility”
節約 as Saving or Economizing can mean you have to Economize the use of Nodes on the Promise that it’ll save money.
As you learn/memorize words you’ll find the onyomi sinks in when a kanji/onyomi pair is used in two or more words. Personally, I have the most problems with kunyomi as there’s no pattern meaning I have to lean on the more brute force kunyomi mnemonic chart given in RTK 2.
Might not be what you are asking, but I used RTK when I started learning. Now that I speak and read Japanese pretty comfortably, I don’t remember almost any of the RTK keywords or stories. When I learn a new Kanji, I just learn it in the context of whatever word it is now.
I tend to shorten down the stories as much as I can, to the point where I’ll just see the radicals/kanji and think 1+2=3 kinda thing, it’s hard to describe. It’s very close but not quite learning it by heart, although there are a few kanji/vocab which I preferred just learning by heart, especially those you get exposed to a lot, such as 私
I used WaniKani and got to level 60 (unlocking all of its kanji and vocab), but stopped using its mnemonics altogether at around level 6 or so.
I think that once you’re comfortable with the idea of kanji and how they’re used in the language, mnemonics can become obsolete *real* quickly. Your brain will, over time with enough exposure, learn to recognize certain groupings of certain shapes as meaningful words. You already read English in this way, grabbing familiar “blocks” of text without needing to analyze them too closely to understand them:
> Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
I got burnt out of mnemonics at some point. I’m still stuck at level 6 on WaniKani. Honestly like, I don’t know, I’m not interested anymore, I’m trying other ways. I’ve considered anime but it’s just lethargic considering how much of the same anime feels now.
This video is what piqued my interest in changing my learning style: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5taR18uZ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5taR18uZ8)
The biggest challenge is using what you’ve learned, and I don’t to use anime even if it’s an abundant source. I want to use it with other things.
I just read the story for a first few words, they got boring too fast so I just learnt the word by radicals and pronunciations now.
I have found the stories to be a waste of time.
Fundamentally, kanji are mostly phonetic. It’s useful to understand the meaning of the components, particularly radicals, but most characters are far away from the meaning of the shapes. 90% of characters consist of a meaning-based radical and a sound-based component. The meaning of the sound-based part is mostly irrelevant to the new character. It’s more like “this is the word that sounds like x which has to do with metal, or the earth, or plants, or fish”.
Knowing the meaning of the components serves as a useful mnemonic, but going beyond that is creating things that don’t exist in the language.
When you are starting, everything is new, and memorization is a challenge. Later on, you start to see the same character components over and over, so you move up a level of abstraction, and it becomes easier.
I learned Chinese before learning Japanese, back in the days when everything was paper. It was just brute force, writing characters over and over, and it worked fine. Take the time that you save creating stories and use it to write or read more 🙂
I used RTK, made up a dumb little story for almost every single one of them. Worked for me.
But you seem to be asking about a mnemonic for a compound word. Some don’t make sense, and you have to let that be what makes them memorable.
Sushi technically means “Longevity Director”, and that’s so strange that I’ve never forgotten it. (Yes I know it’s ateji)
i am chinese,every time i saw somenoe compaint about how difficult kanji is ,i just giggle.