I won’t speak on behalf of native Japanese speakers, but I can confidently point out that the people who tend to shit their pants over usage of 俺 are mostly foreigners. Even when I’ve heard Japanese folks disapprove of its usage, they explain it’s got more of a situational usage, whereas many foreigners SWEAR by 私 even with friends. If you’ve watched interviews between total strangers on YouTube on the streets of Tokyo, you’ll note that usage of 俺 actually isn’t uncommon. I will put a disclaimer that I, regardless, would use this only with friends, family, and strangers of the same age. What are your thoughts on this?
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I wouldn’t personally use 俺 just on the basis that it’s not what I learned, I learned with 私 and 僕, so why would I use anything different? I’ve always found 私 rolls off the tongue more easily for 私は especially, and when you’re used to saying 私たち anyway, idk, 俺 just feels clunky by comparison. Personal preference though to be fair.
I can’t speak for natives either, but I get the feeling the people who think badly of the word 俺 are the type to parrot conventional wisdom that’s already widely parroted without necessarily experiencing the theory in action (or in this case, disregarded). Namely, “Textbooks (which aren’t updated all that often) say 私 is standard and everything else has a cautionary note. Anime speech is non-standard is considered weird. 俺 is used all the time in anime. Therefore, 俺 is weird” despite the fact that, as you said, is used so frequently.
僕は「俺」の使えるが好きですが、あんまり使えないよ。
「俺」はとても何気なくてちょっと舐めだと思いますが、「十人十色」でと言われたね?
Sorry if my Japanese isn’t correct, I’m a little rusty, I haven’t studied for a few weeks now.
I like the word 俺 but I don’t really use it often. It’s really casual, and a little rude I think, but they say “ten people, ten colors” right?
I’m in no way fluent in Japanese, and know even less about what’s acceptable in whatever social situations but…
Just because it’s a native person saying it that doesn’t mean it’s not rude.
I’ve heard “give me” more times than I can count from native English speakers.
I personally use 僕 which seems to go over well in most situations, maybe I’m making some sort of social faux-pas I’m unaware of, but I’ve asked natives about it and they’ve all told me it’s fine, so 僕 it is.
Granted in my situation I only intend to interface in Japanese in a social capacity and not professionally.
I’ve heard 僕 is fine in the work place, even when talking to your boss (I’d probably err on the side of caution there), though I wonder if there’s not some circumstances where 私 or even わたくし might be more appropriate.
I might use 俺 in the future with close friends, but I don’t have any Japanese friends that I’d consider close to that degree yet.
My guiding principal atm is that unless I’m comfortable calling someone バカ or あほ I don’t use 俺.
I can’t talk for native speakers as well, but I get the same impression as you that this is a situational thing.
While I don’t think anyone would stop talking to you because of whatever pronouns you use, depending on your personality it can make a difference on how people perceive how casual you’re feeling.
i.e.: your friends knowing you’re a bit shy or proper at all times, and not mention it if you use 僕 when hanging out VS friends who WILL find it weird/distant that you’re not using 俺 because you’re kind of uncomfortable and go “aaaay bro we just vibing is all good lol”
I’m loving to hear what people think of this, though!
Not just ore but there are a number or words Japanese males use that I have been told not to. I still can’t say “umai” instead of oishii. I’ve just accepted it at this point.
I like how everyone on here is a foreigner prefacing with “I’m not native, but ore is bad…” lol
almost all guys I know use it in casual situations omg. Cool it guys.
I’m not native nor speak Japanese at a very good level, but I taught English in secondary schools for 4 years. The impression I got was that the tough kids/teachers used 俺, the more polite ones used 僕, and the really uptight/shy/reserved ones used 私.
I get this impression (take it with a grain of salt), that these different pronouns were used to set up an “atmosphere” or a feeling of who they were. I’m not sure if that makes sense, but every time I heard one or the other, then it’s like it gives you a sense of their background and what they’re likely to say or do in the future.
It’s the same with the females pronouns. It’s like a declaration of which “group” they belonged to.
This is completely my impression and feeling I got when I experienced these.
Edit: typo
My spouse is Japanese and he always uses 俺. Except in formal settings, where he switches to 僕. I’ve pretty much only heard 私 from middle aged+ people in formal settings and Japanese learners (also in the workplace though). I work in a junior high and I heard 俺 all the time, also お前 (from my husband too, who’s 37). So I agree, 俺 is acceptable, Lol.
I lived in Japan for around one year. Men mainly use 俺 with friends from what I recall. Personally, I prefer to err on the side of caution and use mainly 僕.
I’d recommend anyone learning Japanese to always choose the more polite version of things rather than the less polite version. It’s better to be too polite when you shouldn’t be than the opposite. I remember hearing about a story of a guy who used お前 when talking to a director of a school who was interviewing him, lol.
That being said, yeah, if you believe that you know when is a proper moment to use 俺, I don’t see a problem with it.
I think most of the hate just stems from the fact that “don’t use 俺, it (can) be pretty rude” is actually good advice for *beginners*, because as has been pointed out already by a bunch of people 俺 is pretty situational, and if you use it in situations where it’s not appropriate then yes it can come off pretty rough. But then I guess a bunch of people took that advice too far and kept applying it in all situations.
I was told by a native to stop using 私 since we’re friends, ever since I’m using 僕 in informal contexts. 俺 seems to be the least used although I still sometimes use it interchangeably.
I basically use 俺 in most casual social contexts unless maybe it’s someone I’ve never met before. I use 僕 with my teacher and my boss – although they are both very casual environments. I actually had a friend tell me once that if I kept saying 私 people would think I’m gay lol. I think he was mostly just roasting me tho.
Literally at least 80% of young dudes habitually use 俺 in casual conversation.
Any foreigner who cautions you against using it except in formal settings has no idea what he’s talking about.
I’m native so I don’t think about what learner’s community feels when they hear me use 俺 (because that’s what I do all time anyways and didn’t know it was taught as some kind of explicit language), but I suppose I need to be careful not to offend anyone lmao
The way I understand is, which first person pronoun to use in which occasion is only and strictly based off of my preference from personality, and I don’t purposefully choose 俺 to offend anyone in any situation. It’s just that 俺 fits better (thus feels right) to me in certain context, like arrogant one as one of the example, thus people may or may not get offended upon the use of such word like 俺, ウチ (regional), あたい (nobody in 21st century uses) etc. It’s more like I choose 私 when I want to put my remarks under nice blanket for effective delivery in certain situations because 俺 is the basic one for me. To me, 俺 is just casual vibe, and it is more often than not just chill .. or man-spreading lol The point is, you pick one, and find one you feel most comfortable with. It’s not explicit.
Anyways, so it’s about character, so sometimes it feels unfit to some person. I have a typical math nerd friend with glasses and bowl cut, and he was well mannered, and when he uses 俺, I feel like something is a bit off, but at the same time I expect him to follow with some strong statement or opinion which he rarely ever exerts. I have a typical tough-guy senpai and the opposite goes when he uses 僕; I expect him to talk about something quite humbled as opposed to his usual tone. I use 僕 and 俺 almost 50/50 and my ex used to laugh at me when I use 僕 like who the heck uses 僕. (As represented by the word “僕ちゃん”, 僕 sounds like pretty innocent boi, opposite of a bro like オレオレ系). She was from thick-skinned tough tongue neighborhood and every man in her village spoke tough, and they said I speak classy (which is not the case once I speak in Tokyo where everybody sounds like textbook Japanese – well duh), so those perception is also about personality/preference one grew up with. Therefore I also cannot speak for natives anyways, but I can only speak for myself – so it is indeed hard to recommend one or another if I were to teach Japanese to someone.
It never happened but if any of my friend ask me which first pronoun sounds more fit based off of my understanding of their character, then I can definitely do it absolutely effortlessly. It’s just hard to generalize it without knowing if he’s a math nerd or tough bro. (And the point is, nerd can be arrogant and bro can be sensual – just learn to pick right tool for your need, you know?
edit: English
I am foreign and have no issue with it. I use 僕 with anyone higher than me or a coworker, and use 俺 with friends.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have been told that 俺 is a pretty blunt way of saying “I” (maybe even egotistical), and is generally used on the side of more angry speech. However, I’m sure that there are plenty of native speakers who use it when talking to close friends and such, and don’t really care about how you talk.
As a foreigner I can only say I’ve seen it change how native speakers perceive me. Some female Japanese friends of mine said they prefer to hang out with guys who say 僕 like I do. One of them was surprised when I said 俺 one day (purely to see if she reacted). Of course many other women were fine hanging out with guys who use 俺, so I assume it’s a way to put forward your personality and see who matches with it
Never been a fan of 俺. I use 私 with anybody other than my family. Within in my family, I use わし
Personally, 俺 feels bro-y….like I picture a guy using it while drinking a beer with his friends or if they’re trying to seem nonchalant.
I personally use 僕 and 私 depending on who I’m with as it feels more “me”: a small, effeminate non-binary boy who’s constantly anxious. 😅 I’d probably only ever use 俺 as a joke but I hear a lot of guys use it in casual and baseline conversation so it’s not as much of a faux pas as people make it out to be unless they’re using it in a speech or with a higher up.
I think language learning material strongly over emphasizes formal speech. I’ve studied other languages and this is a thing in every language. I think it’s kind of ridiculous, because in most situations in most cultures in the modern world, you’re more likely to make someone uncomfortable by being too formal than to offend someone by not being formal enough. Japanese is one of the few cultures where formality still means anything so the situation is a bit different though.
Also, I think English speakers are used to the mindset of picking a pronoun (or being assigned one) and sticking with it forever, and can’t wrap their head around Japanese people changing their pronoun to fit the situation.
Personally what I find annoying is everyone just says “oh that’s not important” whenever you start talking about gender differences in Japanese like it doesn’t have a huge effect on how people perceive you.
Not native, lived among Japanese surfers up north for a while. I always used to use 僕 because of what I was taught by proper, standard, professor types. A few weeks in I’m on the couch at the surf shop, and I get a question:
ねぇ、TOASTY
うん？
なんでいつも『僕』って言うの？
え？僕って、間違ってるって訳？
いやっ、間違ってないけど、ちょっとゲイって感じだよ。多分俺の方が自然だね。
Everyone around me thought I was trying to act effeminate/signal that I was gay/bi through the deliberate use of 僕. I considered this and switched to 俺 for most situations. Not that there’s anything wrong with that of course!
I noticed this too. It’s so common (I use it all the time, except when teaching or in formal situations, in which I use 僕). Almost all of the male students and teachers at schools use it.
In fact, when hanging out or just being in a casual setting, I know less people that *don’t* use it.
For some reason, there’s apparently this stigma that “oh you’re trying to sound like a tough anime character” or something? I have a friend that always tries to say something along those lines, and I’m just like… Uh… So I guess most males in Japan are too then? LOL
Edit: It is pretty situational though. I wouldn’t be 俺ing around if I was a shy/quiet/feminine/cutesy type or in a meeting! It’d feel WAAAY out of place.
Can anyone help out a fellow mobile user who’s at N5 with some furigana for that word?
I would like to point out that foreigners often don’t have the knowledge of social nuances and sticking with pronouns you know are ok in almost any situation is advisable
I pretty much only used 私 when I was first taking Japanese, because that’s what we were taught and that’s what I was comfortable with. Every time I tried 俺, I dunno, I felt like kind of an imposter or try-hard (I have no idea why). Now I mainly use 僕 all the time, at work and in social situations, unless I’m talking with male Japanese friends around the same age or younger than me, in which case I might use 俺.
But I agree, I’ve noticed that people use 俺 WAY more than I was led to believe in my earlier years.