TLDR at the bottom…
I want to know your opinion since this is a complicated topic for sure and we must be mindful. First of all, they might simply not know or didn't notice. Second, from personal experience, there were many times where I had gaven up my seat for an elderly citizen just for them to refuse to take it, which left us both standing and the seat empty till I got off. Finally, a train has 8 or 10 carts with many seats that the elderly person can be use and if they are all occupied then why isn't a seat being given away by another passenger on the train.
I think that some people feel privileged and justified in harshly criticizing someone just because they don't look Japanese is cruel, especially since even native Japanese people will sometimes fake sleeping to not deal with giving up the seat in general.
TLDR: Just remember that while it is a polite gesture, you should not go villainizing anyone for not doing it.
Important: You also need to consider the possibility that they have internal disabilities or injuries that can’t be seen which is way they can’t just stand (speaking from experience sadly with a fked up back, asthma, low blood pressure, injured leg muscles and heart problems while looking like a healthy young man 🥲).
Edit: The post is about disability awearness and being considerate of people in general not a cry about seating.
Edit 2: I moved to Shinjuku from the States back in May and I never knew about the red disabilty/help tags before posting this/until now.
It is not like someone gave me a handbook when I moved to Japan telling me to get the tag or else people will stare at you.
by ajlouni
32 comments
I didn’t know this was a thing, but yeah that shouldn’t happen.
I think it is very important that not every disability is immediately visible. I know there are the tags you can get for your bags to make it more visible, and it helps but that may not always be readily apparent either.
Meh, don’t pay it any mind. I used to always give up my seat but rarely saw Japanese people do it.
Anyway, thanks for the thread. You just reminded me to get off my phone and begin fake sleeping. See y’all in 30 minutes. Pulling into a busy station now.
Ultimately, there’s no law that says you have to give up your seat to someone who could benefit more from it. Also, as there are priority seats, then it’s expected they should sit there. But it’s a special kind of rude people who sit in priority seats when they don’t need to.
Of course, most of us have good manners and will given up seats. I find myself doing it frequently in the mornings, but no one makes me do it, I do it for myself.
But you know, rage bait is what gets views.
Recently I’m hearing a lot about rage-baiting pulling a lot of views in Japanese social media. The recent posts about combative people filming foreigners to provoke reactions. I’ve heard four such stories since the British guy in Kyoto’s tour group. Is this a recent phenomenon growing or just happens to be intersecting with my life randomly recently?
I was in Tokyo recently. I have mobility issues and use a cane to walk. Every time I got on the train, I’d head to the priority seats. It was very rare for anyone to offer me a seat so I’d just pick one person, usually a Japanese salaryman type and tell them to move.
Funnily enough, on one trip, I had an older Japanese woman sitting beside me. She was ranting at anyone else sitting down, saying they weren’t disabled and they should get off the seats. The woman opposite us moved her handbag to show her heavily pregnant belly and the old woman soon shut up.
We live in a world today of virtue signaling, where 2 wrongs make a right.
100% agree that you shouldn’t publicly shame someone like this especially when you don’t know the full story. On the topic of priority seats in Japan, the situation is pretty dire. If you read the discussions on the dumpster fire that is Japanese Yahoo News most people would have you take a taxi than expect you to use a priority seat if you need one. I understand it’s the internet and it doesn’t represent everyone but today’s comments about strollers in Kaldi was like “wow”.
Guy here that had a pretty significant internal injury (now all healed) and was fresh outta surgery for said injury. I was told off by a western Karen IN TOKYO, when I was entering an elevator in the station. Because according to her, I should have made space for her and her baby stroller, since I of course could use the stairs.
Mind you at the time, I could barely walk. Promptly told her I couldn’t walk up stairs and to f’ off. She just stood their mouth flapping like a silent gasping fish. If I could, I woulda showed her my still bleeding staples.
So yeah, don’t make assumptions, folks.
I don’t know anything about the person going around posting pictures. Can’t that get them sued for defamation? Are they only posting foreigners?
But those are priority seats. Specifically the elderly, pregnant, with child and injured. Some these days include those with internal injuries. If you aren’t one of those, you should only sit there ready to move when someone fitting the above descriptions move into the area. Simply not noticing, sleeping, etc. is not an excuse. Japanese people are horrible at this. I broke my ankle a while back and it took me banging my crutch on their legs to get them to move. Quite frustrating. Pregnant women complain all the time that they can’t get seats. Things have to change, social awareness has to improve. Is public shaming with photos the answer? No, but I can understand what that guy must be feeling.
I was taught when growing up in Australia to give my seat to women and the elderly.
When I got here I learnt not to stand for all women because it’s only pregnant women and elderly and by me offering my seat meant I thought they were big or old. I got some shocked looks untilI I learnt this
I have invisible disabilities, so I think people shouldn’t judge people who are sitting in disability seats. Some are assholes, but some do need them and it may not be obvious.
Now I’m heavily pregnant and visibly people can tell I need a seat. People have generally been kind to me about it .
I wonder what would happen if someone pulled out their phone and started filming the person filming.
Have a friend who has issues with hemorrhoids. She had to stand because sitting was painful. Though even standing she looks like she is in pain. This always gets people to offer their seat to her when it’s the last thing she needs.
I look young and fit but have an invisible disability so use those seats regularly.
Yet, it’s embarrassing to show the red tag all the time so hide it under the flap of my messenger bag where I can show it if needed.
So if I’m asleep or if you simply don’t say anything they might not see it and film and wrongly publicly shame me.
I think this person *suuuuuuucks.*
Edit: Where are they posting those photos? I wonder if I’ve been “caught”…
I wouldn’t care, I’m not giving up my seat
This drama post seems as needless as the original “tourist shaming” one…
where are those vids? ??
Additionally, unless there are reserved seats, public transportation be that way; first come, first served. Just part of life.
One only has full control over what they themselves do, so if you choose to surrender a seat to whomever you want, that’s your own call to make. Expecting others to always do what you yourself would do, though, is likely going to disappoint more often than not.
Then ignore it. Rage bait gets posted because people can’t help themselves. Now you have whoever sees this googling what you are on about, spreading the very thing you are trying to stop.
>especially since even native Japanese people will sometimes fake sleeping to not deal with giving up the seat in general
I sometimes notice this especially on buses. People are too used to minding their own business.
Also, I have a friend who often tries to give her seat to elderly people while on the train only to be politely refused. I sometimes do it, too but it depends on my mood or how tired I am.
Posting pictures of strangers online is an infringement on the right of publicity and image rights as defined in Article 709 of the Civil Code of Japan. Doing so may open yourself up for a civil suit and subsequent damages.
Taking pictures without consent on the train can get you banned from service, and the carrier cancelling and banning you, if there is a complaint filed. It’s not considered public space, so the rule about that doesn’t apply.
From your post I’m assuming this is a gaijin in Tokyo taking pics of other gaijin and posting them on…Twitter?
You can’t always see disabilities, nor can you judge from looking whether someone is sick or injured and needs to sit.
I’d recommend minding your own damn business.
TLDR was TLDR
yeah, i have scoliosis and fucked up ankles that even surgery couldn’t fix and cause me to randomly collapse any moment the ground isn’t perfectly even. but i look like a healthy young lady so whatever ig.
My station is second from last on a line where most trains don’t even go all the way to that last stop. I’ll go backwards a couple stops just to make sure I get a (non-priority) seat and I am not giving it up so I can stand for an hour and a half.
Handicapped level 2 and carry my disability card, but don’t do the big Red Cross thing. While I don’t always need it, when I do, I have never had an issue getting a seat, but would also be highly annoyed, to say the least, if someone tried to shame me for sitting in handicapped seats because they “assumed” I wasn’t disabled (though I am getting closer to the elderly age every year…)
Yea this kind of shaming, well like most kind of shaming, is completely unacceptable when they don’t know what’s going on.
I give up my seat whenever i can, but as OP mentioned, sometimes as normal and/or working people sometimes we just don’t notice or we notice too late.
For example my work commute is over an hour with one transfer, but I’m able to get a seat for most of that commute. When i see an elderly or pregnant person (or with a small child), or someone with the red medical tag, i 100% of the time offer up my seat if i can.
However, some mornings or evenings I’m more tired than usual and either sleep or end up falling asleep during that long stretch of the commute… Or sometimes i have extra work to do so I’m on my ipad working away and completely zoned out.
I’m not purposely ignoring those elderly, disabled or other people who could use the seat more, it’s just due to my own circumstances i didn’t notice them.
Some years ago some guy got on the train while i had already been sitting for some time and tried to shame me and make me give up my seat to an elderly man who looked like he was struggling to stand up in front of me. (The old man and i had been kinda talking a bit on and off in Japanglish for a few minutes). It felt great to hear that old man tell that guy that i had already offered my seat multiple times over a few stations but he declined over and over. He said he didn’t want to sit down cause it would make him sleepy and it was hard for him to get up and he might miss his stop (the next stop) while trying to stand up.
Thank you! I am young and may look healthy at first glance, but I’d probably have a harder time standing up than most old folks
Yeah this is so rude and ridiculous
I once tore a leg muscle in my home country doing gymnastics and had to go to the clinic in a wheelchair, then I could walk a tiny bit but not balance I’d have to sit in handicapped seats bc I’d fall otherwise, I got so much shit from old ppl because they saw a fit young person sitting in this section and they’d yell at me and I’d explain to them I can’t fucking walk I assure you I have a right to sit here
Yeah some rude ppl sit in the seats undeniably but to take their picture when you never know if they’re handicapped or not is crazy
When you intend to give up a seat it is best to not approach the receiver and just casually stand up and leave.. maybe even go to the next car.
Also, people might be really exhausted from being overworked and working 2 or 3 shifts… so it isn’t just a case of being disabled.