I'm at my wit's end.
I'm been studying and living in Japan for almost 5 years and I still can't have a basic conversation with a native who's not a teacher. I can only read graded reader books and even then I struggle immensely. I can't for the life of me memorize words long-term, it's like impossible. All the sounds mix up in my head. The only area where I make progress is grammar. I tried to watch anime with Japanese subitles and I don't understand anything. Like nothing. It's the same as if I watched them in Arabic or Chinese.
Living in Japan without speaking Japanese makes me feel terribly inadequate all the time and regardless how much effort I put into it I can't seem to make any progress. I do flashcards every day, I try to read 1-2 pages every day, I study grammar every day, I listen to podcasts every day. I just don't understand why I can't learn this damn language no matter what. I just want to cry.
by kugkfokj
22 comments
are you using english on a daily basis? in work/uni or with friends? from the sound of it you live in japan but don’t surround yourself with japanese
Although I don’t live in Japan I feel you – despite hours a day every day for over a year I can barely understand anything from a video game aimed at teens. I keep lying to myself that it’s the journey that matters not the destination, but the only thing that really keeps me going is sunk cost fallacy. We must get there, eventually!
Are you using study materials that are suitable to your level? When you say teachers, do you mean coworkers, or Japanese teachers who are teaching you the language, such as in private lessons?
I get with anime or movies or whatever, even with subtitles it can be hard to follow along if you don’t have a large vocabulary. But if you’re really putting in that much effort every day, you should be making improvement.
How much listening are you doing on a daily basis? Immersion and audio input is crucial before output.
To start, 5 years really doesn’t mean anything, what matters is how much time you’ve been putting into the language. If someone puts the same amount of time over the course of a year that you put into it over the course of 5 years the outcomes are going to be extremely different.
Sounds to me like you need to read and listen a LOT more. 1-2 pages a day of reading is not going to cut it and you won’t make progress like that no matter how many flashcards or grammar you study. You may be listening to podcasts every day but how long are you listening? What is the subject matter? Are you learning words that come up in the podcasts through flashcards and reviewing them?
You need to sink thousands of hours into the language and do this consistently over a long period of time while supplementing that with vocab and grammar study via flashcards, or just constantly looking unknown words/grammar points up over and over again as they come up in media you consume.
There’s a lot more specific things that can be said but your post doesn’t really give a real clear picture of what you’re doing, it’s hard to help without more specific details. The crux of any good advice though is going to be 3 things: read more, listen more, look up unknown words and grammar. Do those three things every day for multiple hours a day and you will get better.
I feel you man. Living in Japan for 5 years and I struggle with my listening and speaking as well. Don’t give up!
Not everyone learns at the same speed, but everyone can definitely do it. Don’t give up!
I know how frustrating it can be to feel like you aren’t making progress.
I have one possible solution to offer which is to use anki to learn more vocabulary. While obviously immersion is needed to piece things together, you can pretty much guarantee that if you have 10,000 words learned on anki you WILL be able to at least have a basic conversation and understand a decent amount of native content. I know this because me and many others have done it, and despite always feeling like my Japanese isn’t good enough, it is undoubtedly better than when I only had 5,000 words or 2,000 or 1,000 learned in anki.
Grinding anki isn’t fun, but when you feel frustrated and stuck forcing yourself to do some not fun studying in return for guaranted concrete gains in your Japanese can pay off in the long run.
– how long daily do you study? This is more important than counting years as studying for 5 years 10 minutes a day isn’t the same as studying 2 hours a day
– when you listen to podcasts or try to read 2 pages day, do you do it comprehensively or just let it slide in the hopes you understand it
– it is ok to ask natives to speak slower
– when you try to watch anime, do you watch jujutsu kaisen or simpler stuff
– how often do you do ank? How many cards?
– how much a day do you do kanji practice
– how about reading practice?
– do you have the patience to stop whatever content you are going through in order to look up whatever you don’t understand?
Language learning is about just patience and finding how you like to learn best, what’s more effective for you. I get your frustration but maybe it’s just a matter of taking a step back and think about what has been working and what hasn’t. I’m sure in these 5 years you have learned some things… maybe not as fast as you’d like, but still learning..keep it up ☺️
There’s no way you understand nothing at all like you would be watching something in Chinese, there have to be things you understand.
If there really isn’t anything you understand try to watch/listen at a slowed down rate like 80% speed or something. There are browser extensions that can do this for you.
If you still feel like it’s to hard watch content aimed at kids and also slow that down.
Lastly fix your attitude and expectations, being positive about learning and the work you have put in will be beneficial to you.
Check, you might have like a learning disability or something, 5 years is an insanely long time.
Sounds like you started your Japan journey around the same time as me. Have you been in a language school this whole time? I was only allowed 15 months before I had to move on to something else.
Do you think you learn better from writing or just reading things? I need to write things out for my brain to sink in all kinds of content, so things like flashcards never really worked for me. But for long-term memorising, what I would do is write a set phrase on paper, followed by some vocab you could substitute into the phrase. Then stick it on the fridge, ceiling above the bed, or behind the toilet door, etc. This would work like passing by the same signboard everyday to and from school/work. Eventually you just can’t help but remember what you’ve been seeing everyday.
Anyway, that’s my suggestion. I’ve mentioned it several times here already but don’t know if anyone took my advice. Whether you do or not though, good luck with your learning!
A few pieces of advice:
– watch some video content aimed at learners where natural language is broken down and explained. GameGengo vocabulary series on YouTube is a goldmine – https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT12i1gB38HH4mCaEmcuc2c5kxdkvxF96
– pick a single piece of content and aim to understand it 100%. Anime movie is a good start, since they won’t have as much vocabulary as a series or a book. You can mine vocab into Anki but I recommend using jpdb.io.
– rinse and repeat
This is what got me out of the rut of N3 after being stuck in it for 12 years.
Do you have Japanese speaking friends? Or are you stuck in an English only bubble?
> I can only read graded reader books and even then I struggle immensely… I tried to watch anime with Japanese subitles and I don’t understand anything. Like nothing.
From what you describe you are a beginner. There’s nothing to be gained from beating yourself up about your level, just start from the beginning with a structured approach. Genki, tae kim, whatever. Just review the early stuff until you get to your current level.
> I can’t for the life of me memorize words long-term, it’s like impossible.
Have you tried anki?
> I still can’t have a basic conversation with a native who’s not a teacher.
Well having a basic conversation with a teacher is still way better than nothing so keep doing that.
> I do flashcards every day, I try to read 1-2 pages every day, I study grammar every day, I listen to podcasts every day.
These all sound reasonable to me but clearly what you’re doing isn’t working so maybe switch some stuff up. Are you mining the pages you read for vocabulary?Podcasts won’t be super helpful if you’re understanding nothing of what they’re saying.
Making some changes in your study routine seems warranted and changing your defeatist attitude will help as well. If you study everyday you’ll gradually improve. Especially if you engage with Japanese outside of study sessions. You’re in Japan, so talk to some japanese people in Japanese. Watch Japanese TV, read some japanese manga.
3.5 years checking in. Same problems. I’m sure when I get to the 5 year mark, I will feel the same as you.
I can’t remember any vocabulary. I hate anki so much. I’ve tried to use it so many times, but I just can’t handle the 90s looking interface. And when I try to add furigana to a custom deck, you have to faff around with CSS etc. I just don’t have the patience for it. It’s probably a skill issue because my ex had custom buttons and all sorts going on in her version of anki that she customised herself.
I start text books and get bored quick.
I have a teacher and take 2 lessons a week. I forget everything I learn.
I’d be happy to take it slow if I could see progress, but I can’t see any progress with any method I try.
I honestly wonder if it’s just not possible for some people.
Sorry OP, I don’t have anything that can help you, but just wanted to let you know you’re not alone.
I’ve been in Japan almost 10 years now. I have a lot of buddies also living here the same amount of time (if not longer) who have shit for Japanese ability.
It’s good that you care and seem to be making an effort. Other than that, there’s no magic advice. My language ability really came up when I took a language pledge for two months during study abroad.
My grammar and vocab are lacking since I haven’t studied in years, but I’m proud of the fact that I speak like a dude (I have too many friends that can speak Japanese but sound real feminine). I worked hard to find a crew of bar friends around my age when I first moved here.
You really gotta find a social group. Short of that, maybe try and put together a study group with other foreigners.
Only other advice I can think of is taking the JLPT. I say this as a dude who has never taken it…. But, it would give you a decent assessment of where you are at and a goal to study toward. Studying towards having a conversation with a native is a moving target. It’s probably better to have a fixed target to aim for.
GL
Best thing to do is to immerse. A lot. Instead of reading 1-2 pages a day, you need to be reading for at least 1-2 hours a day. Watching anime with Japanese subtitles is a good idea, so keep your chin up and keep at it. Use Anki as a supplement, and make new cards for the words that you don’t know. The key is to make so-called “i+1” cards, the idea being that you only mine words from sentences that have only one unknown word/grammar concept. Rinse, wash, and repeat.
Really though, the most important thing is to have fun with it. Is there some show you really want to watch in Japanese? Some book you want to read? Make that a goal and try and do 3+ hours a day. Best case scenario is if you can learn to love the process of learning this language (which is rarely achieved by grinding grammar textbooks or italki). Good luck!
As someone who dabbled in both English Teaching (have a CELTA degree) and Japanese teaching (currently taking a 養成講座 or a teacher training/development program) this is my pov on the situation
**It’s ok if you forget; learn to lose**. This is a very hard skill to develop because everything and every learning method and most education systems that ask for fast results go against it.
For example recently i met the word 巷では (chimata or word on the street) which i haven’t seen before but what caught my attention was how the kanji is close to 港 so i made a mental note of that and kept going (And that somehow it starts with a chi). When I met it again i realized the word is usually written with the particle De after it and somehow it became more intuitive that it’s about a location or an abstract location like the street or the gossip in it. The third time I finally got around memorizing the whole chimata. It wasn’t the product of a single day. I had to break it into multiple components and take whatever was easier to me to memorize at the time, then build upon on it later or accentuate it later with other important information.
When people create flash cards, they put a lot of information and try to memorize a lot of information about every single vocab or grammar but the thing is every piece of vocab is already hard by itself because there’s a ton of hidden information crammed into it like intonation and contextual uses and pronunciation and etcetera. Therefore we you meet a **new vocab word only take one aspect of it with you and leave the rest**.
This has worked wonders for me, made my reading sessions longer, more productive, and my retention has also improved because I don’t try to 100% each the word every time. It’s like in those video games where you have to use a skill a certain number of times to gain mastery over it; same reasoning. In lessons and exams we also put students on the spot and ask them to memorize a lot of info and dumb them in exercises and exams so they later forget everything because their minds haven’t made long-term connections. They like **jumped from 0 to 100% in an instant without doing the required steps** and thus when they forget the rules or when their brain’s short term memory doesn’t work out their minds doesn’t have any other way to bring back this info because they haven’t cultivated it in the first place. Most of the time seeing the words in different contexts helps cultivate the rest of the info you are missing and accentuate it with new unforgettable experiences ( a certain way the character said it, a certain book that put the two kanji together in the same sentence, or the word’s synonym and antynom together, etc..) Anki sadly doesn’t provide that and makes you stick to one phrase and later you find out that you only know how to read the word in that phrase and with a very specific intonation that doesn’t carry over to other sentences (because we all don’t speak in the same way even if we speak the same language).
Second is to have a **certain and specific goal whenever you engage in media or a conversation**. Just listening or reading feels like like you are dropping water on the floor instead of in a cup or in a bucket, so most of what you listen to isn’t really useable and doesn’t even play into your conversation skills because you haven’t decided what you will use it for or haven’t cultivated a certain framework that allows you to act in certain situations.
Most lessons ask students to talk about one specific topic, and do some lead-in activity to activate the words needed to engage in that topic in the students’ mind (this is called activating schemata). So for example, if you are watching an anime episode, make it your goal to learn to say five coherent sentences from that episode, or that you learn 20 new vocab from it, or whatever. If you don’t have a goal, then try to write 3 things you observed about that episode. This is kinda similar to the logic of the first idea which is **dumping down your language intake or learning goals so you don’t get overwhelmed**. I’ve personally found that when a topic is decided my speaking skills were good and I could remember grammar structures a lot better, compared to when I didn’t have any topic at hand.
Also about your point of frustration, my advice to try and **cultivate your own identity** in the language by making a journal or journaling certain sequences of interactions in the media you see or when you see the natives doing them. For example, lets say you want to talk about the time with a native. Maybe you will first give a simple greeting then ask do you know what is the time now? こんにちは、今何時かわかりますか？or maybe you are late for a job so you want to add this part in the same sentence or maybe after it. すみません、今何時かわかりますか？仕事に遅れそうなんです。Maybe you want to be more polite and say こんにちは、今の時間を教えていただけますか? **Have you ever thought about which question you want to ask and how?** **and how you will answer depending on their answer?** probably not. You need to start making decisions and adhering to these decisions in your target language, because you can never really memorize every word and actively use every word. As you get better, try to hone your identity with ways to describe movies or past memories and lookup the sentences needed to describe these things.
Determine short and applicable goals, and be satisfied with the reward and the result. And you will always feel that every language learning session is rewarding no matter what.
You need a LOT of (for lack of a better word) input. READING should be a priority, but not graded readers. You need to watch TV and Shows that are interesting to you and read the subtitles. The video and audio will give you more clues and context to help you understand what you’re reading. And when I say a “TON”, I mean hours and hours every week. Another reason why you want VIDEO is because it’s easier to amass the amount of time you need. The more entertaining, the better. Don’t worry about grammar. Only look up grammar when you don’t understand it while watching. If you’re not sure if it’s grammar related – use Chat GPT. Copy the sentence and ask GPT to “break it down”. Then you can identify the part that’s confusing and ask Chat GPT to provide more example sentences.
1. Dump the flashcards – This gives you repetition in only 1 context. It’s not that bad, but you can do better.
2. Sign up for Netflix and download Language Reactor on Chrome desktop/laptop computer
3. Download 10reader for Chrome. This will allow you to hover your mouse over words you can’t read or don’t know, and it will give you the reading and definition.
4. Watch shows you enjoy. English audio with Japanese subtitles. If you’re feeling brave, Japanese shows with Japanese Subtitles.
5. When you hit a grammar point you don’t quite get, look it up in Taekim or JLPT sensei.
When things start to get easy for you, up the difficulty.
Start with stuff aimed at kids, and go English Audio/Japanese Subs. Then when that’s comfortable, go to Japanese Audio/Japanese Subs. When that is comfortable, start watching material aimed at teens and again. Then for adults. When you’re about N3 level, start reading books aimed at Elementary school kids or high school kids. Books I’m currently reading are “不思議な話366”. These books are a “Page a Day” books about science related topics. “Why is the sky blue?” “What is sleep paralysis?” etc.
YOU WILL FORGET WORDS. This is not bad. It’s normal. You need to just keep foraging ahead. Doing this consistently over a long period of time will result in success.
>I’m been studying and living in Japan for almost 5 years and I still can’t have a basic conversation with a native who’s not a teacher.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to write this sentence in flawless idiomatic Japanese. Use any resources you want, consult with native speakers, but stop everything else you’re doing until you write this one sentence in perfect Japanese that a university professor from Tokyo couldn’t criticize.
What really helped me was reading manga. 90% of the text is conversational, and it’s easy to pick up context with over dramatized facial expressions while having all the time in the world. It helped both my reading and speaking, I’d give it a try