Hello
My wife and I are considering moving to Kyoto from Tokyo, where we have lived for a few years already. The main reasoning for this that our family is steadily growing, we would like to move out of a steadily-getting-cramped Tokyo apartment to somewhere slightly less costly while still being in grabbing distance of city conveniences and major train line, as well as hopefully a bit more quiet – the area we currently live in in Tokyo has lots of cars and heavy lorries, as well as some very special people who decide its cool to rev their muffler-removed cars down the wide empty streets in the middle of the night. We also just really like visiting and are very positive about the idea of making it a long-term place to be.
We previously considered Fukuoka but decided that it was a little far from everywhere else in the country, with weather also being a concern given the harsh typhoon season this year.
My main concerns about Kyoto are:
- 礼金 and 敷金 are apparently quite high. My boss told me that Kyoto is *the most expensive* in Japan in this regard, but he also didn't have a single good thing to say about Kyoto during the brief discussion, so I suspect he may be a little biased for whatever reason. He also said it was noisy because there are a lot of university students around, but didn't elaborate on where, and given this was right in the middle of a work meeting I didn't want to press for details and prolong everyone else's boredom.
- Tourist season(s). The last time we visited, buses were so packed we were not even able to board and had to wait for the next bus, which was a good 10-15 minute if memory serves. That one was packed too but we could just barely get on. Being treated like a tourist drives me up the wall (I'm British but speak Japanese fluently) and I'm a bit concerned this will be very common in Kyoto, however I don't think it can be much worse than central Tokyo.
- that giant spider someone posted in another thread not long ago holy shit
To anyone who lives in Kyoto, what are your reads on the above? Do you have any more general advice or other things to consider for people moving from Tokyo? My company's office is in Tokyo but many employees (myself included) already work 100% remote, I've talked over this idea with my boss's boss, he is absolutely fine with it – if I need to get to Tokyo for whatever reason, the Shinkansen ride is only a couple of hours anyway.
As far as the type of accomodation we are looking for, we are aiming for a high-rise apartment, the higher off the ground the better. Tokyo obviously has these everywhere, as for Kyoto we are mainly considering 下京区 or 南区, so expecting to find somewhere not gigantic but something 5-7th floor sort of height. In regards to the 礼金 and stuff point above, apparently newer builds don't suffer as much (or at all) from those rates – what has your experience been?
by DustInhaler
12 comments
Because Kyoto doesn’t have high rises, landlords and management companies indeed want to make a lot of money through Shikikin & Reikin. Shimogyoku is out of the frying pan and into the fire with respect to wanting to escape the Tokyo rat race. Minami-ku has lots of good and bad pockets, so you have to get on the ground here and look for what you want. I was on 9th Street there whenever I go and a huge group of bosozoku came through, so you may be looking at kyoto through Rose colored glasses.
I personally would never consider living in one of the central areas of Kyoto, but that’s a personal taste. I live on the outskirts in Sakyo-ku and I like it that way. I live one minute from a bus stop 4 minutes from a train station and 8 minutes from a subway station.
To make it short because it’s getting late :
Mansions are prob less expensive than in Tokyo but can still be very expensive.
Shimogyo is ok but some say everything south of the station is not good.
Tourists are a real pain…
But usually, you get everywhere on your bicycle, you avoid the bus.
You will prob not get those big spiders if you live on the 5-7th floor ?
I dont know about housing prices for a family, but agree with the other comment that you’re looking to move into the only part of Kyoto that resembles Tokyo. The other wards are much quieter. Close to Kamogawa would be most ideal for a family, the families I knew here go to the river to hang out a lot.
Yeah tourism sucks, but it’s tourism so it’s concentrated at the places people find when they Google top 10 places to go in Kyoto . You were probably at one of thoses places when you couldn’t get on the bus. Take time to know where those olaces are and make sure your bus routes aren’t the same as those ones and you’ll be fine. Even better to make sure youre close to a subway line, then you’ll never have an issue.
Kyoto is so lovely, I think it’s completely changed my tolerance for living in badly designed/dirty/concrete cities, it’ll be hard to leave.
I have a friend who lives in Kyoto with her young family and she hates it. She finds the summers are becoming increasingly unbearable and now she’s trying to move up north. She also lives in central Kyoto so the tourist and bus situation is a nightmare for her.
Check out Yamashina
central kyoto here, almost 3 years. it’s mostly quiet during all hours in the residential areas, but most mansions around here are max 5-6floors. shimogyo-ku is busy, busy, busy. like the comment below, south of the station is not so good (totally personal taste, i’m sure you can find some lovely areas south of the station).
although having said that, buses will always be super packed around that area.
it seems that we are always on tourist season as of late, so being a non-Japanese, it’s an everyday recurrence of being treated like a tourist. no escaping this.
muffler-removed cars do go by every now and then, or just swanky sports cars, and not forgetting, campaign trucks blaring their agendas for a solid 15 minutes non-stop.
i don’t see that many university students around where we are, but yes, if you go north of Gosho.. doesn’t bother us much, i mean.. Japanese university students.. mild level of noise disturbances compared to say, uni kids in London (i was one of them).
as for giant spiders, we’ve never encounter one (on the 4th floor), but there are roaches.
all the best! i hope you and your family will find your pocket of heaven in kyoto, wherever that may be, central or otherwise 🙂
Look at Ohtsu, Yamashina and Uji too.
Kyoto really doesn’t do high-rise. If you live here it’s finding the calm slower pace behind the tourism, balance of town and nature.
Bad things you may’ve heard about Summer and people have some truth behind them, but it’s actually a pleasant life on the whole.
Beware of compliments. Kyoto “what a lovely smile” does indeed mean “looks like you slapped your makeup on with a cake spatula on a crowded bus going down a bumpy road”. But there are plenty of genuine people.
Summer here is unbearably hot. For real. You might very much regret your decision later after having a proper taste of it. It’s 3-4 months of mostly staying inside. I wouldn’t willingly sigh up for this myself if I knew how it actually felt.
I’ve moved here recently, just at the start of the summer and am living centrally (Kamigyo-ku). It’s pretty nice so far, the summer is too hot and it’s been a bit difficult to know what to do with the kids without Hoikuen, but is getting better now.
Moving fees vary but are on the high end generally. But rent is cheaper than Tokyo generally.
Tourists – yeah there are a lot, more than Tokyo. But I’ve started to realize they are very confined to parts of town you don’t really need to be in all the time. The exception is bus travel. They are busy, busier the closer to Kyoto station or a famous hotspot you go.
However, in Kansai bicycle is the way. Kyoto is completely flat, and actually has very good coverage of bike lanes and wide pavements. Getting around by bike is great.
High rise – you barely see it. There are whole low rise neighbourhoods unlike most of Japan as rules are uniquely strict and there are actually old buildings around. We’re in a very new apartment, first tenant, but we are on the ground floor of three floors and it’s easy to see the sky around here. You will probably find it but it will restrict your search a fair bit.
We’re walking distance to Kamogawa which I highly recommend. The water is very clean and it’s one of the only tolerable activities in the summer outdoors.
12th year in kyoto here – if you want to avoid tourists and crowds shimogyo-ku is not the move. 南区 can be very industrial in parts, so it’s also not what you want if you’re looking to avoid that cramped concrete-y tokyo feeling. i would suggest looking a little bit north of 三条 or 四条. you’ll get a lot of uni students past gosho but the tourist numbers are also correspondingly lower. if you’re near the 賀茂川 (not to be confused with 鴨川) or 高野川 you’ll see lots of nature: cranes, ducks, hawks, the occasional deer/salamander/firefly and it’s pretty nice. also potentially a pretty good view of 五山送り火 if you’re on a higher floor. don’t take the bus if you need to be somewhere on time, you’re gonna wanna cycle or take the train. the good thing is that tourists almost never venture out of the touristy bits of kyoto so in my day to day life i don’t see them unless they’re incredibly lost.
unfortunately you are going to get the turbo-tourist treatment no matter what as a visible minority, BUT this might spare you from the famous (infamous) kyoto native passive aggression so it might be a blessing in disguise. i’m guessing this is part of why your boss didn’t have anything nice to say about kyoto LOL.
summers are also incredibly shit. if you thought tokyo was bad tokyo summers are downright balmy compared to whatever satans arsehole business is happening here so just be prepared to constantly be on the verge of heatstroke for a quarter of the year. the other seasons are nice enough to make up for it. if you’re a little bit higher elevation like where i am you’ll get a nice dusting of snow come feb, but the trade off is 1) wasps the size of your fist (スズメバチ) in the warm months, 2) yes the spiders really are that big. they leave you alone though. 3) so many kinds of mukade. honestly suggest just learning to get comfortable with our bug friends, they’re just trying to live here too. lots of butterflies and hummingbird moths too though! those are nice.
edit: can’t speak to the 敷金／礼金 as i’ve been here a while and things may have changed but while it was on the higher end compared to tokyo it was still manageable. my biggest expenditure moving from kanto was actually having to purchase new appliances bc kansai’s grid is on 60hz and kanto is on 50hz lol
Lived in Tokyo, now Kyoto (10 years). I don’t have much to add from what other people have said other than I want to make it clear, outside of heavy tourist hotspots, Kyoto is extremely quiet and relaxed. So much so my business gets in trouble (a gym that opens, god forbid, at 6am)
Kyoto is a university town the further north you go. It’s relaxed and there is a lot of nature.
You said you have a family. I would never have wanted to raise my son in Tokyo and I’m so happy to be in Kyoto because it’s just frankly a nicer environment for kids.
Not a Japan resident, but I was in Kyoto this summer for a couple months and the weather is almost unbearable.