Hi, I’m looking for advice in an issue happening with my neighbor.
Around four weeks ago, I installed a washing machine into my apartment. I bought it from someone in my community and installed it myself. It ran great the first time I used it, but the second time I ran the machine the connecting water pipe began leaking and I didn’t notice until my kitchen was flooded. I turned it off and cleaned up the water as soon as I noticed, and I haven’t run the machine since. However, about one week later my landlord came and told me that water had leaked into the apartment below me. The man who lives below me is a university student who was out of town, so he didn’t notice the water for a week. The water ruined his futon.
The landlord/my neighbor’s father have been speaking about this issue to my boss, because my Japanese is not great enough to navigate this properly, and she was in charge of organizing my housing. Around two weeks ago, my boss told me that insurance might not cover the flood because I installed the machine myself, and that I might have to pay to replace the futon out of pocket. I thought this was fair, and was prepared to pay for the futon. But a few days later, my boss sent me a line to say that the student’s father had come to my town at the time to help with the situation, and the father wanted reimbursement for his travel costs. I found this a little upsetting, because I felt like it was the father’s choice to come here, and not a necessary expense. Insurance said they would not pay the father’s travel cost, but my boss told me it would be nice if I did. I tried to give the father and tenant grace and understanding during a frustrating situation, and said I would be willing to pay for the new futon and the father’s travel costs.
Today, my boss texted me to tell me that the father of the student is requesting reimbursement for:
-The cost of the new futon, but the old futon was a present from his grandmother, so he wants more than that (but didn’t specify how much)
-The cost of the two way transportation for the father to come to my town
-The cost of throwing the old futon away (only about 500 yen, and I think this request is reasonable)
-Compensation because his son has had “mental distress” due to the situation. He also did not specify how much he wants for this.
As this situation escalates and the father is requesting more and more, I have become increasingly distressed. I have no idea what is reasonable or expected in a situation like this in Japanese culture. I don’t have a lot of money, I live alone, and all of my family and loved ones have been locked out of Japan for two and a half years. I find his request for ‘emotional compensation’ exploitative and unreasonable, but perhaps that’s just my cultural bias. I’m so defeated at the thought of going through a legal battle here alone, if it comes to that.
My hope is that, if insurance will not cover it, I pay for the new futon, the disposal of the old one, and the father’s transportation costs as a kind gesture. But it seems that as time goes on he continues to ask for more.
My boss said that maybe I can speak with the father, and while I have been working hard all year to improve my Japanese, it is incredibly broken, limited to pleasant mild conversation, and definitely not able to help me communicate or listen clearly to him, especially when I am so distressed. I wish I could communicate to these people directly to come to a solution, and it’s frustrating to have to continue to hear their requests through my boss.
If you have any insight or advice, I’d be so grateful. I don’t know whether it’s worth it to give them anything they ask, or hold boundaries.
Edit: thank you everyone for making me feel sane
another Edit: My boss (one of several bosses) is involved because she’s in charge of organizing the housing and insurance for people working for JET in my area
41 comments
Some people are like that. As long as you keep giving, they keep asking for more. Just say no.
The futon and its disposal Is OK, and you can give them a bit of moeny for the trouble and the cleaning they had to do (to amount of the father’s travel cost?). But grandmothers memories and mental distress are BS. Learn to say no.
Were it me, I’d be weighing the chance they actually try to take it to court vs getting a lawyer. Get all communication in writing. I’m sorry I don’t have anything better to offer
Get. A. Lawyer. This has gone beyond a simple mistake and compensation situation.
Old man is giving you the Showa Shakedown. Just say no, and if they want to pursue it further, tell them you prefer to talk through legal representation.
Japanese courts don’t generally award compensation for emotional distress, compensation usually just covers actual losses.
I’d simply cover the cost of the new futon, and only that. If they keep pushing for more then they would get nothing. Let them try to take you to court lol. Won’t happen.
why are you giving money to someone who has literally nothing to do with the situation?
what happened only effected the owner of the futon. replace the futon and thats that
the father is taking the absolute piss.
Futon and only futon. He chose to travel on his own.
Tell them if they want more, talk to your lawyer
Connecting water pipe? You mean the hose from that water tap or the hose from the drain? Washing machines are user installable. Insurance should pay out provided things like that are covered. The deductable may not make claim possible though.
Next time he visits, wrap him inside a new futon like a spring roll and push him down a mountain.
Paying for the futon replacement and disposal costs are reasonable everything beyond that is bullshit.
At this point I’d just tell the guy straight, “sue me”
He wants to take it to court hire a lawyer say the same, I’ll pay for the futon replacement and disposal. Will cost you some but will cost him more. He won’t call your bluff. You pay nothing.
Just tell them to fuck off at this point. They don’t wanna play fair so don’t bother to be responsible. They want bullshit emotional damages. Let them argue that before the court. Spoiler alert, they won’t.
Just say no. Debt collection has no teeth in Japan, and they’d have to take you to court first anyway which would cost way more than the value they are asking for. Pay for the futon and for their trouble but tell them no and that its final. They might threaten, but nothing will come of it. There’s no way a court will award more than what you’ve already agreed to pay.
The travel was where he noticed he could take advantage of the situation, and everything after that is basically extortion. Just pay for the futon. That’s plenty.
Double check whether your insurance really won’t cover it. Those quick-connect couplings used in washing machines do not need a professional to install them.
If not, just pay for the futon, the disposal/cleaning fees, and a little more (perhaps his travel fees or some cookies or something) as an act of good faith.
I wouldn’t bother hiring a lawyer unless they start legal proceedings against you as the cost of a lawyer would probably be more than any “emotional distress” money they would demand.
What s prick. And your boss is a prick too for not advising you better. Sounds like she just hopes you’ll pay everything to end it so she doesn’t have to deal with it. Your insurance company are pricks for not paying too. You are surrounded by pricks.
You pay for a new futon and disposal of the old one. You were being nice to agree to pay his travel costs, but he responded by being a prick so that deal should be off the table. I hope the English speaking lawyers help you.
Also don’t use phrases like “i feel uncomfortable”. Use phrases like “filthy old scam artist can go do one”.
Say that since you don’t know Japanese law very well you would be more comfortable paying after a court of law better defines the damages
I’d cover the costs on presentation of receipts and give them a box of sweets for the mental distress. Also I’d apologize with a deep bow in front of witnesses who speak Japanese and can translate for me. Then I’d say I consider the matter resolved.
Pay for the cost of the new futon + the cost of throwing the old futon away. It would have been reasonable for you to pay a little extra for his travel/trouble, but now he is clearly trying to fuck you, so niceties are out the window. Tell him if he wants more than that, then he will have to obtain a court judgment – no court is ever going to accept his demands.
“I’ll pay up to ¥xx,000 for the futon and the ¥500 disposal fee. Nothing else, And only if insurance dies not cover it. I will go to the store and pay for the futon personally. Requests beyond this will have to come from a lawyer.”
Lawyer? Jesus Christ where are all of you from? Lawyering up is a movie thing for Americans. Japanese police will not get involved, lawyers may get involved but they will not pay for something like that. Think anyone will go to a lawyer to get compensation for a futon? And 500 yen disposal fee?
Futon and garbage fee. That’s it. Paying for travel for the father is unnecessary, egregious even.
Get receipts for the original futon and trash fees.
Things like this make me feel like getting out of here. I often find that Japanese people don’t operate based off logic. Paying for the futon as a “my bad or whatever” would be more than enough. His dad can fuck right off. Seek local foreigner legal assistance. I was able to get help when I was facing a 250,000¥ charge for cancelling an apartment application.
Why are you even going through the father of the student? The student is an adult, right?
Tell them you will pay for the cost of the futon and the disposal fee for the futon but tell them you’ll reimburse them for it (rather than paying up front) so that you know they’re not fucking you around. Everything else is nothing to do with you. Father did not need to travel to look at a wet futon.
Also tell your boss to stop sticking up for some random dude’s father and start sticking up for *you*. It’s not necessarily your boss’s responsibility to be on anyone’s side but for fuck sake what a spineless cow she is.
I think maybe you can reason to the dad that this is only extent of amount that you can give etc and for the difficulty conversing with Japanese part, maybe you can ask a friend or someone who can speak Japanese to help you translate? I think if you are in a foreigner populated area, local government offices such as city halls have interpreters, you can ask them for help.
The insurance on the apartment is something you pay for a reason… tell them there was an accident and there was water damage. Ask your boss to call the insurance company. Then tell the landlord and everyone else involved to talk to the insurance company. This way the insurance can built up a case to how much a % of the blame was on you and etc… passing it off to the insurance is also better because your boss has bette things to do them listen to your landlord complain. etc.
If it gets larger then this you need to find a lawyer.
I believe self installation of washing machine is OK and the flooding should be covered by insurance, I think you should ask for why insurance is not paying that.
Futon and maybe a little cost of clean up is fair, there is nothing to do with his father, this is unreasonable request, you are not breaking his hose or causing issue that a single person can’t handle. Think in this way, if he’s asking 10 persons to come over are you going to pay them? Those are simply bullshits.
Give the bare minimum you think fair and tell them good day.
Tell both of them to EAD and toss them the cash for only the futon at the old f*cks feet … make sure you shoot them the double bird while whilst shotgunning a beer … cue Stone Cold Steve Austin entrance theme 😂
Demand from him a fee for your ’emotional distress’, but don’t let him know how much… Keep it a mystery that he has to live with… wondering just how much the fee for ’emotional distress’ might cost.
You (or your insurance) are legally liable for **actual damages** only.
1) You are liable for the futon *less depreciation* – not the full replacement value. *A futon has a depreciation lifespan of three years*. They must provide proof of when it was purchased and the value. If it was 30,000 yen, and he has had it for two years, you are liable for 10,000 yen.
2) You are liable for the disposal fees of the old futon.
3) You are liable for the cost of any professional cleaning that was done.
That’s it.
You are not liable for the father’s transportation, as it was his choice to come. His son is an adult, he is not reliant on the father.
You are not liable for any “emotional damage” – that is reserved for cases with malicious intent or criminal torts.
You’ve already offered far more than you are legally obligated to pay. Tell the father to get fucked.
Depreciation values here: http://tool.yurikago.net/601/yurikago/ (A futon counts as bedding, not as a bed)
You should ask for you becoming distressed compensation to the father 🙂
Just give a final amount as a final offer and say that if they don’t accept it they’re free to sue.
If they have to sue, they’ll have to justify the cost of damage. The judge will throw you with an arbiter who’ll try to find a middle ground.
Just tell your boss that they don’t need to deal with it after the final offer and tell them that any further request should be addressed to you (give an email).
Whatever they say just reply: at what bank account should I wire the money. Then wire the money you told them you would. Then ignore any further contact unless they actually sue.
Next time you flood your apartment, you should probably take five minutes to check with the neighbor below you to make sure everything’s alright — you know, before the landlord calls you about it a week later. :/ I mean, that’s basic adult responsibility stuff, right?
The guy is clearly pissed and milking it. But then again I’d say most Japanese people in the same situation would have already brought him an overly generous envelope of apology money and a big box of crappy omiyage. *Days* ago. Personally, and maybe I’m in the minority here, I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors by prolonging the situation and figuring out how much money you morally/legally owe this douche.
Some places offer free legal advice in English. Other places have someone who can help you with issues that involve difficult Japanese. Poke around a bit on the internet and see what you can come up with.
Here in Kobe, for example, the KICC (Kobe International Community Center) used to have a couple local lawyers who stopped in once a week that people could just chat with for free. Or, of course, hire them if you needed to do so. That was a few years back, when KICC was in a closer location to me, though. Don’t know if they have something like that currently. [https://www.kicc.jp/ja](https://www.kicc.jp/ja)
Tell him to fuck off or he’s going to keep trying to milk you for more. Tell them you pay for the futon and nothing more since they want to be greedy dildos
Just suck in a long breath of air through your teeth while making a pained expression. Then say “chotto muzukashii desu ne, moshiwake gozaimasen”. Follow this with a deep bow.
That should suffice. If not, bring a knife and offer to chop off one of your fingers.
I am sorry this happened to you. I think you have already been given good advice but yeah, new futon/cleanup costs are the right thing to do. Travel costs + maybe a box of cookies or something would be an extremely nice thing to do (I probably wouldn’t if they didn’t ask about the travel in advance). Anything beyond that is completely a shakedown and I would absolutely not pay for that. Please don’t let anyone tell you this is some Japanese cultural practice as it absolutely is not.
I’ve been on the other end of this. The upstairs neighbor’s washing machine flooded my apartment. The water went through the ceiling space and by the time it seeped into my apartment was gross and smelly. They had to pay to replace the tatami, and my futon (they paid the cost to replace it) I had to take a day off work (unpaid) to deal with the tatami replacing people so they gave me a little extra for my trouble.
A month later they flooded my apartment again. It wasn’t as bad as the first time and they only had to pay for the futon.
Wow, that’s unreasonable. We accidentally flooded our neighbours apartment below us when we installed a new toilet. Old pipe busted. Our neighbours were a young couple and had just redecorated but our insurance covered the damage. All we did was go to their door with a box of fancy snacks to apologize. Nothing more happened after that. It makes since to reimburse the futon and pay for the disposal of the old one but they are taking advantage of the situation.
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What isn’t clear is the extent of the damage. Was the ceiling affected at all? Did anything get waterlogged? If not just pay for damage and clean up, I.e. return it to the same state as before. Anything else is just bullshit.
LOL imagine being a university student and calling your daddy from the countryside to come help you with a minor problem. What a baby.