A question about Shinto and praying the Kami

16 comments

1. Most people don’t take Shinto that seriously, metaphysically speaking. It’s more of a cultural/historical thing with a bit of superstition sprinkled in.

2. Shinto is a political synthesis of thousands of local traditions. The actual shrines, as far back on their history as you please to look, offered protection / boons to worshippers in exchange for coin.

   The agglomerated Shinto faith is a work of nationalism – it’s been through several waves of this – and when you get nationalism, you get people angrily barking at other people that they aren’t doing it right, they are degraded, immoral, weak, etc and having only heard about it from your post, I assume this book is something like that.

3. People pray for things all the time. Different shrines are famous for different things — prayers to pass exams, prayers to become rich, prayers to fall deeply in love, prayers for protection, prayers to protect from COVID, prayers to buy a house, prayers for safe travel…

   Alongside all of the prayers people buy amulets, talismans, and other tokens at shrines. They occasionally pay large sums to have prayers done on a regular basis by priests.

   If anything, the nature of shinto prayer is MORE transactional than Judeo-Christian traditions.

   Frankly, the book you are reading sounds like bunk.

4. I’ve read that it is a 15th century innovation by the Yoshida school of Shinto. The claim was that before the Yoshida sort of commercialized things, praying for the collective community happened, but seeking personal favor was not part of the equation.

5. >In the book is stated that in Shinto people go to pray and thanks the Kami without asking nothing in return.

   This is not necessarily true. People pray to Kami for various purposes and to ask for favors. More often than not, Japanese people visit Shinto shrines because they need something (to wish for good fortune in the new year, pray for the health of their children, pray for others in times of natural disaster, etc…). When you visit a shrine and follow the proper customs you are both paying respect to the Kami and may ask for something in return (if that’s what you want to do).

6. This seems to be a self-published book which isn’t anything bad per se but needs to be considered too with regards to credibility/reliability.

7. The answer? The truth? Well,that’s easy. It’s 42. It’s the question that we don’t know.

8. I’d say the big difference here is that Christians believe that their god always listens to them no matter what. literally just your *thoughts* will be heard whenever and wherever you are. whereas in Shinto it’s believed that the gods have better things to do than pay attention to some random mortals so the only way to get their attention is to shout/clap your hands, or you bring your wishes to where it is believed the god may reside and/or appear frequently. so Christians would pray directly “to” a god and in their belief either god answers their request or he had “other plans for you”. while in Shinto you hang your requests in the god’s backyard and hope he happens to drop by and he’s benevolent enough to grant it.

9. Quel libro è una cagata pazzesca

10. Long long ago, in Shinto, in Japan, there was no difference between 神(gods) and 鬼(demons).

    outsiders were called 神 or 鬼.

    When someone died, if who had a grudge against people, who became 鬼.

    The Japanese believed that 鬼 cause [Tatari](https://www.japanese-wiki-corpus.org/Shinto/Tatari.html).

    Shrine was the prison that builted for confining the Tatari.

    This is because they feared the Tatari of the 神 (鬼).

    Probably, The reason students go to the shrine is [Taoism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism), not Shinto.

    Taoism and Shintoism and [Onmyodo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onmy%C5%8Dd%C5%8D) got messed up.

11. People ususally do not think of it seriouslly, some would ask for “no diseases(無病息災)”, “family won’t get into trouble（家内安全）”, “safe birth (安産祈願)”, “business going good (商売繁盛)”, “passing school exams (合格祈願)” and things like that. Those 4 kanji words which I have listed is also kind of popular kind of theme? some omamoris are related with. I’ll ask for family safety every time but, I do not really believe that really would have effect on me. I think it is good opportunity to be thankful to my family though.

    Oh but there are shrines for more specified benefits, like Yushima-tenjin, specialized for academic success. So people going there will be a little bit more serious I guess.

12. People do pray for things though, all the time. They buy charms and pay for special services (like after a baby is born or even for a new car). If a charm was successful it’s good to bring the charm back to the shrine and give it to the Miko.

13. I call shenanigans on that book when they go up an throw money in the box ring a bell then clap their hand they definitely ask for stuff. I don’t know if it’s different Catholicism because I’m not part of either. But you can literally buy talismans for exam success, healthy pregnancy, good business all sorts of stuff. So there’s definitely a request element to Shinto worship rituals.

14. In addition to the many good answers you have already received, I would say that Christians have done a more complete job of anthropomorphizing the concept of “god”. God can be represented in paintings, and people will instantly recognize it. There is a specific dogma and catechism in Christianity (well, for sure in Catholicism). Man is supposedly “made in God’s image”, and therefore man imagines God as a very human-like being, albeit with unlimited, supernatural powers

    In Shinto, the concept of the gods is more amorphous. There is no dogma or catechism one must adhere to. The gods are often very localized. The “kami” of one location might be someone famous who died a long time ago. In another location it might be a legendary person who was said to have passed by or rested in a certain place. The gods can “bless” your health, your childbirth, your new home, your business, your college entrance exams, etc… If you go to a shrine and shake the bell and toss some coins into the offering box and make a sincere wish, they may answer it. But there are no common Shinto “scriptures” and no strict dogma to follow.

    Note that in the 19th century, when Japanese nationalism was on the rise, there was a movement to codify Shinto into a more coherent system of beliefs, but for most Japanese people it is a kind of benign, cultural “white noise”. Something that surrounds them and is familiar to them, but not necessarily demanding or intrusive.

15. Generally people don’t think about “the” Kami.

    Shintoism is not monotheism – i.e. God is not the one and only. Whereas in Abrahamic religions god is ultimate, omnipotent and the only.

    Shinto has a figure of speech called “8 million gods” perhaps simply better translated as polytheism with many spirits and deities. やおよろずのかみ

    Among these deities there are many roles they play. Anyone of them can represent some version of health, wealth, relationships, major events in life, or just to literally preserve something. Sometimes they are without deep meaning.

    Because of protective and warding motifs quite regularly people nowadays still place a ward (結界) around physical objects or buy amulets from shrines. In other words there are specific things people do for blessings in return.

16. A Kami aren’t as the abrahamanic god, they have a personality quite human and inhuman, so you never know if they will grant you anything, when something good happen then prey and sometimes later the will protect you and grant your desires and wishes… Just not expect that to be fast.

    That is how I see it :/.