So I reasonably understand why most people advise against learning Japanese solely through Romanji, however, if my main desire is to have intermediate level conversations when I visit (it’s not like I’m moving there or plan to live there full time) and get around easily, is it really that big of a deal? And it’s important to note that I would learn some characters that would be the most important and useful for getting around.
So other than not being able to read and the obvious stuff that comes along with that, what are some other downsides to learning through Romanji? Like, are conjugations harder or lack of resources, etc.
Let me know!
19 comments
Intermediate level conversations, next to 0 chance of that happening if you aren’t even willing to learn hiragana/katakana. At most you can learn some phrases off a tourist travel book and be able to get around, but you’re not gonna be able to hold any sort of actual conversation
You might be underestimating how much work it takes to get to a level where you can hold intermediate level conversations. The amount of time spent learning kana is a drop in the bucket in comparison. That being said, if you’re never exposed to written text, it should be similar to learning aurally.
In terms of studying, you’ll have significantly fewer resources and won’t be able to search for common questions that have already been answered by native speakers.
The most common romanization for learners is Hepburn, and for conjugation the T and S rows may be less intuitive especially with the voiced variants. For example, “chi” belonging in the T row; “shi” and “ji” being related isn’t as obvious as し and じ when the rest of the S row is romanized to Z, and both づ and ず are represented as “zu” under this scheme.
Another potential issue is with particles that aren’t pronounced as written, like wa instead of ha, e instead of he, and o instead of wo.
Yes it’s a big deal, and honestly the native text is so much easier to read than romaji that you’ll waste a lot more time by trying to avoid it. There is 0% chance that you are getting as far as intermediate without knowing at least kana and a few hundred kanji. Also, once you get past the most basic of basic introductory levels, there are very few resources for learning in romaji. Even some introductory text books will basically tell you to learn kana before starting them. Minna no Nihongo, for example, covers the kana briefly in the preface before even starting chapter 1 and then you basically can’t proceed any further without knowing them.
The main downside is that kanji makes learning Japanese easier, not harder. Once you get used to it, that is.
Simply put, kanji is an amazing aid for vocabulary acquisition. It is the entire reason why you can often look at a word you have never encountered before and guess its meaning and reading with a surprisingly high degree of accuracy (definitely not 100%, but decent). This happens to me every single day as someone who has a good grasp of the writing system but a well below college-graduate sized vocabulary. It just makes learning new words really easy. And what do you need to take part in “real” conversations in Japan? A lot of words. Yes, I include getting directions, ordering in restaurants, etc. it that category too because, although it is easy to learn your lines for these activities from romaji, you may find yourself completely lost when someone answers the question in a non-textbook manner (more likely than you would expect). The first time I went to Japan I found myself utterly lost when engaging locals in what I thought would be simple conversations, despite having studied to what I believed was a decent level beforehand. The simple fact is that most Japanese people will either assume you speak no Japanese whatsoever, or they will massively overestimate your ability (or at least your ability to understand what they are saying to you) upon hearing you ask a well formulated question. It makes sense. I mean, you asked, so why wouldn’t you understand the answer?
I recommend one of three approaches: 1) Learn the language well, including the writing system and all “everyday” grammar, build a vocabulary of thousands, 2) Get a bilingual phrasebook, maybe one of the point and speak type ones, for when you find yourself lost in Japan, or 3) Just use English and hope for the best.
Honestly I usually advocate for learning a language to whatever level you want, but my experience is that Japanese is a really terrible choice of language for people who want to do it by halves.
> And it’s important to note that I would learn some characters that would be the most important and useful for getting around.
You have described the kana. The most important characters to learn for getting around are the kana and then kanji. It’s seriously not that hard to learn hiragana and katakana, just do it instead of faffing about thinking about learning through romaji. Here’s some good resources from tofugu:
[hiragana](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/learn-hiragana/)
[katakana](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/learn-katakana/)
[and their practice app](https://kana-quiz.tofugu.com/)
spend a week or two with those and now you never need to think about “okay but what if romaji” again.
You definitely quickly run out of good resources without knowing the kana and you’d be making it extra hard on yourself to get around without being able to read anything. Also one of the best ways to get a handle on _any_ language to read interesting native material in the language, that’s a step toward “intermediate level conversations”
Besides the obvious reasons this is a terrible idea, and the fact that getting to an intermediate level will take so long you might as well learn how to read anyway.
I can’t think of any online dictionaries that use romaji.
When reading in Romaji, your instinct will be to pronounce the words as if they are not in the Japanese language, the tempo of your voice will be all off. When it’s written in kana, it’s much easier to see how it’s really supposed to be pronounced. You’re gonna end up pronouncing things like [this person.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cringetopia/comments/podyqf/girl_pretends_to_speak_japanese_and_forces_an/)
Lastly, Japanese in romaji is just ugly.
the main issue is that the grammar, particularly conjugating verbs, doesn’t make sense in romaji, but it does in hiragana. when you conjugate, you effectively move one character across a gojuon row to another column, and then add other stuff. however, in romaji, it makes no sense to shift from TSU to TA in the same way you shift from KU to KA. after all, where’d the “S” go? it’s an invention of the romaji rule set that doesn’t really exist.
also, romaji-specific learning materials kind of peter out after a while. at some point there’s no point, so the good references are going to be in kana, you’ll be stunting your access to decent examples. also, when reading anything, really, even with furigana, you’ll be unable to even sound things out. whereas with at least basic kana knowledge, you can at least pronounce words written in kana or that have furigana on them. and looking up words that was is way easier than trying to look up the kanji directly.
Others have said it already. you REALLY underestimate the amount of effort this will take, and imo you don’t stand a chance of actually learning enough if you don’t learn hiragana and katakana. They are quite simply indispensible.
Other to look at it in another way: if you think learning hiragana and katakana is too much effort, you really don’t stand a chance learning everything else.
Nearly everything in Metropolitan Japan is English friendly, Japanese can speak English, it is in their education system and saying very convincingly “daijoubudesu” is not gonna get you into “no foreigners allowed” bars anyways. If you are not trying to get some certificate or read/ watch Japanese media raw, why bother really.
I suggest as a tourist you might wanna learn at least some Katakana words since all foreign words are written in that you might want to know how to read ホテル (Hotel) and タクシー (Taxi) or バス (bus).
Learning Japanese with romaji is a really bad idea. When I learned intermediate Japanese in uni, we had already memorized hiragana and katakana and were just getting down to kanji. Romaji itself isn’t a part of the Japanese language, it’s a transliteration; it’s supposed to be something to lean on, not something to learn in itself. By focusing on romaji you’ll waste so much time that could be spent on learning actual Japanese.
Yah I cant read japanese in romaji. When u keep practicing with kana it becomes easier, and then when you learn kanji vocabulary becomes easier to pick up (in my opinion). But learning Japanese in romaji is like shooting yourself in the foot because you need to be able to read almost just enough as you do speak, only use romaji to translate your hiragana, and when you mastered hiragana use that to translate your katakana. And then you use both hiragana and katakana to translate your kanji readings.
Literacy in Japanese is on much more of a gradient than the West, so you might only need to learn up to 3-4th grade level. Kids and under-educated adults do fine without being able to read a newspaper.
Just roma-ji seems like a waste of time though, especially if you aren’t in Japan.
There is zero benefit to using romaji
A lot of people have already said this so I don’t want to, like, dogpile on you here.
But getting to the point where you can have intermediate level conversations is going to take *years*. And that’s assuming you follow a regular schedule of studying and have a conversation partner.
If you’re looking for shortcuts–which it certainly sounds like you’re doing since you want to skip kana and kanji–you’re looking at the *wrong* language.
Japanese is a very rewarding language to learn and I highly recommend it. But you can’t “outsmart” it.
99.99％ of Japanese are literate. Japanese really is a language that relies of a writing system nowadays. There are too many homophones thanks to such a small set of phonics used for a pollysylabic language that has adopted such a huge lexicon from a monosyllabic language that uses tones (Chinese). TV shows use subtitles and newspapers are reliant on kanji. Without a sound knowledge of kanji and kana, you would have a hard time having intermediate conversation about any current event or topic in the media. Not impossible though.
I know a lad who learned using a romaji-based textbook in his first year of Japanese. His speaking was very advanced for just one year of study, but the habit was very hard to drop.
It was very hard for him to progress in kanji study because it felt extra foreign after doing a year of romaji-time.
While using only romaji might get you to the level of “advanced beginner” quickly, going beyond that will be a hurdle and it will likely have done more harm than good in the long-run. It depends on your goals, of course. but if you are going to invest time in learning some Japanese, why not learn actual Japanese?
You can still benefit tremendously from lots of English-language explanations without relying on a language nobody uses (romaji-based Japanese).
I definitely recommend just pushing through and learning hiragana at the LEAST. If you dedicate a few hours to it, you can easily learn it. Trust me, once you learn it you will be super thankful!! Because once you have it down you don’t ever really forget it, you’re able to read!
Yes it may be a bit difficult, but if you put your mind to it you can do it. If you’re just wanting to read you don’t really need to learn to write it, but at the least you should learn to read the characters and such.
I feel like this would be similar to trying to learn math purely via the alphabet, like “seventy-two divided by six equals twelve” instead of just learning how to read “72 ÷ 6 = 12.” It might sound like a shortcut, but in reality it’d just be a rather severe handicap.
I think its better for you to focus on speaking and listening completely without looking at any text rather that ‘read’ in romaji. Children can do it so I don’t think its impossible for you to be able to speak but be illiterate. But of course they will have at least 6 years of pure immersion to be able to speak like a 6 years old so if you can do that that will be the best.
Or else try Pimsleur? Or better try watching https://youtu.be/SRSmd2sXpVQ this is comprehensible Japanese and you also don’t need to learn to read for this.