I noticed however when someone says Japan does X better or is so much better than China, or Korea or any Asian or non-western country everyone is chill and approves.
But someone says “Japan does X better than Australia, the US, New Zealand” the comments are all like, “but the work culture sucks” “they’re extremely xenophobic and racist” etc. Basically whataboutism.
If it really is just about raising awareness of issues in Japan so people don’t idealize Japan, why don’t people bring up issues in Japan when someone says Japan is better at something than other Asian or non-western countries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/v8qfvr/why_is_there_such_a_negative_reaction_on_reddit/
31 comments
I think there are a few issues at play.
Firstly, Japan is highly exoticized in the West. That stems from a long line of racism and ideas about the “mystic orient.” If and when things aren’t made all “mystic and exotic,” there is still the issue of projecting perfectionism on Japan. Firstly by people who maybe have a naive idea of Japan from media, and there’s also a large contingent of white supremacists who see Japan as something of a perfect ethno-state.
Secondly, Japan does do some things right (IMO). They have socialized medical care, decent worker rights (hard to get fired), a good transportation system (in cities). Culturally, since people try to do what’s best for everyone, there’s a decent sense of unity and togetherness. However, there is a dark side, as you’ve mentioned. You don’t have to weigh the total good and total bad, but keep it in mind. When something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
Finally, you can’t paint all of Japan with the same brush. There are shitty people. They’re are excellent people. There are okay people. Same with regions and prefectures. One prefecture might be behind the times on, let’s say the rights of people with disabilities and accessibility, while and other prefecture is ahead of the curve with accommodations.
Some people’s big brain reaction to irrational love of something is irrational hate of the same thing and like you pointed out, it’s usually unrelated. “Japan so clean!”:“Oh yeah, what about the rape of Nanking?” “Japan has a great railway system!”:” Japanese people literally have a word for working themselves to death!”( my personal favorite , like 過労死 doesn’t just literally mean death from overwork, the lack of awareness on that take is flabbergasting). Of course people treat Japan like it’s some kind of utopia and it isn’t , but people should use logical fact based counter arguments instead of rote “the thing you love is actually the worst thing ever, I only have three examples why”
As far as the whole not doing when comparing Japan to Asian countries? Simple, most people on Reddit are from majority white countries, and they get butthurt about criticism of their group, it’s a human reaction.
Why the fuck anyone who lives outside of Japan and doesn’t have family or business here cares about it is beyond me.
This kinda shit is absolutely useless if you’re not giving examples. How the fuck are we, a bunch of random nobodies on the internet, supposed to give you answers to the way people act in interactions that we have no knowledge of?
People just lose their perspective, that is all. The fact is, every country does something better than any other country. On the flip side, every country does something worse than any other country. As an American, I can sit and tell you all the things that America gets right and all the things we really get wrong. Does it mean that America is the best/worst thing ever? No, it just means that America gets somethings right and somethings wrong and that is it.
alot of people are pissed about the xenophobic travel ban
Because racism.
one thing I noticed is that there’s a sort of “collective knowledge” on reddit, i.e., the hivemind. so people think they’re knowledgeable about a topic but really that’s just shit they read on reddit and that’s repeated over and over again. so they just read certain keywords and they repeat what has been repeated on reddit for ages. so it’s not like they really know or possibly care about the topic, but when they read “japan”+”work”, they MUST mentioned karoushi no matter what.
you’re asking an American-dominated forum site (with like 90%+ white people) why an Asian country (that they’ve likely never been to and only heard from youtube or mainstream media), is better than a place where they know well (and are mostly content about). You’re not gonna like the answer.
But to simplify the answer that others haven’t really been pointing out – the vast majority of people, myself included, isn’t qualified to discuss these topics in depth and compare it with expertise (at least well). Online discussions, as you are probably well aware, are seldom joined by everyone in good faith. The result can be quite distorting.
The same is if you compare Japan with China. There are plenty of people online who will say that Japan is better than China in absolute terms. That would be as stupid as saying the US is better than Japan in every comparison. But you will have people defending those because they dont know better.
It’s a forum in English with largely western participants, some of which are disgruntled expats. That’s my guess.
I think you spend too much time thinking about this.
> Japan does X better or is so much better than China, or Korea or any Asian or non-western country everyone is chill and approves.
I don’t recall the time I saw this happened. However, while Japan sucks in terms of its work culture and racism, it’s arguably worse in China (and in Korea regarding at least the work culture), so…
Examples please.
Because it never doesn’t happen the other way around. And people have a chip on their shoulder about it
Say anything positive about America in comparison to another country and you get the tried and true “whatabouts” of – fat, violent, stupid, evil capitalists, etc.
It’s been projected for a long time that while rich and most militarily powerful, etc. America is a cultural shithole compared to the rest of the world. Who’s the most racist country? America, duh. Yeah because our elected leaders had blackface parties and “bongo bongo” parties, right? Racism is a struggle in America. Know why it isn’t a struggle in Italy? Because everyone already agrees black people are inferior. Nothing to debate!
Only recently is it seeping into the general consciousness that every country is “just as bad or worse” than the tried and true Boogeyman.
This only happens when people remind you, though
I would say that if the statement is true, there shouldn’t be a negative reaction. But this is based on the assumption that the participants in the discussion are basing their comments on rational discourse, which is not necessarily going to be the case.
I have a friend from the US who is widely traveled and is currently himself an expat, yet even he has a somewhat Pollyanna-ish image of Japan (he hasn’t been here), to the extent that he seemed surprised when I mentioned that there were homeless people in Tokyo. Dude. It’s Tokyo. There are 13 million people here. There is no way that there’s not going to be some degree of homelessness.
Anyway, I still remember when there was a natural disaster here some years ago – could have been a major landslide, I don’t remember specifically – but it made international news. I still remember the odd “this is payback for Pearl Harbor” comments from ignorant morons. You’ll never entirely erase that kind of thing, which is why you’ll get the kind of thing referred to in the OP.
Because people love talking out of their asses. Both the ones that paint Japan as an idyllic paradise and those that paint it as a xenophobic work centered hell.
I mean come on, most reddit users think that Panty vending machines are everywhere and Japanese people regularly hire boyfriend/girlfriend.
I would imagine that foreigners that have been to Japan, who also happen to use this forum, do not originate from other Asian or non-western countries so they don’t have as much talking points.
Reddit, especially r/japan, uses English.
Never understood the hate people have for weaboos. You don’t see people in Japan shit on Westaboos who like American culture.
Europeans simply can’t accept the fact that Europe is over. If you go on r/europe, any comment criticising Europe gets downvoted to oblivion. Europeans are fucking delusional and have a severe case of superiority complex. It’s sad really.
Because it’s annoying to hear someone who’s never been to the country or has only been as a tourist make statements that are largely untrue and contradictory to the shitty things you have to experience daily.
ie. when people go “Japanese people are so polite!” and then you have to get on the train every day and practically get physically assaulted by the men there.
Or when they go “Japan doesn’t have Covid because masks, they just care so much about each other in Asian cultures!” and then you watch elderly people fall off their bikes or mothers struggling with strollers on the train and NO ONE comes to help, they look the other way or shove them to get a seat and then pretend to sleep. It’s actually quite disgusting so it’s irritating and harmful hearing someone spew obviously fake propaganda when you see the reality every day.
It’s just Reddit culture. You are not allowed to like things here without someone pointing how dumb you are, every subreddit here if they reach a big enough audience will turn into a circle jerk fest. It happened with the Star Wars subs, Witcher subs, and it will happen with the Lord of the Rings soon as the Rings of Power come out.
The “mainstream” narrative around Japan is things just work, streets are clean, people are polite but kept to themselves and etc… So the wannabe smarts of Reddit like to point out flaws in those very specific things. Try to say you love capitalism in a communist subreddit see how long can you go without being banned, for example.
Best to just leave these subreddits when it reaches a point where opposing views are actively persecuted.
It’s because Japan is constantly fellating itself about how special and awesome it is, and the Western anime fans that buy into it are annoying.
Half the time this self proclaimed specialness is just an extension of Japanese racism directed at the rest of the world.
Because of racist ass patriots that that belong to nations that try to brainwash us into thinking its the best please to be on earth
i like japanese arts but i am absolutely appalled and disgusted by their socioculture. they treat sex like a commodity and separate it from love, but also they are fucking liars up the ass; they will just lie about every fucking thing like its water, and they even deeply calculate out their fabricated lie (which makes me so fucking furious). worse is two things – they develop and reinforce their pathological lies through abuse and (school) bullying, and if you ever point out suspicion or proof of them lying, they start gaslighting and trying to manipulate you. that last point just makes me furious to no end. there is no fucking excuse for trying to emotionally abuse and manipulate someone just because he or she has a problem with your lie which literally caused you them make a very critical decision that has impacts 20 fucking years later. god i fucking hate liars and i all wish the elderly japanese bullies to burn in hell for rewarding them for lying and punishing them for honesty. hey all japanese elders who think lying is good, FUCK YOU! YOU ARE A DISGRACE! AND I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND ANYBODY TO GET A JAPANESE FIANCEE IF THEY FIT THEIR DISGUSTING SOCIOCULTURE. IF ITS A WOMAN, THE ONLY WAY SHE WILL BE WITH YOU IS IF YOU LET HER CONTROL YOUR ENTIRE LIFE AND EVEN ABUSE YOU BY FORCING YOU TO ACT LIKE YOU ARE OKAY WITH HER BULLSHIT AS WELL AS TRAINING YOU TO LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING! FUCKING DESPICABLE PRICKS!!
anyway, it is no surprise that there would be lots of people disgusted by being told Japan did something better (socially speaking) than their country did. it would be ignoring the disgusting aspects of Japanese socioculture (though probably all aspects of japanese socioculture is disgusting, except for being generally safe)
If you are living japan now and you doing pretty well , thats is no point for you to bother this sub.If you are planning move to japan , this sub are hijacked by tons of karen thats dosent happy with anything and only know how to blame. Been this sub quite a long time , i found it very disturbing that people in this sub love to harass anyone who just enjoy and love their time in japan.Japan for sure is not a wonderland , it have tons of problem. Dont stop your dream , just by visiting a reddit sub.
It’s not unique to any country really.
US: Yeah but healthcare!!!
Scandinavia: yeah but it’s communism!
China: yeah but their government!
Because there are a lot of people out there with negative feelings about countries and will voice them given the opportunity.
People tend to be prideful and clannish – Westerners are no exception.
The vast majority of Redditors are Westerners.
When someone compares a non-Western country favourably to another non-Western country then, so long as that first country isn’t currently on the public shit list few Western people object.
In Japan’s case, they are one of the most well-liked “Asian” countries among Westerners. Even buffoons whose understanding of Asia is that it’s basically all one big China with different shades of Chinese seem aware of Japan, with little bad to say about it. Objections to favourable comparisons of Japan to other Asian countries are limited, mostly coming from Westerners of non-Japanese Asian descent, people who have become bitter about Japan for some reason (ex-expats etc.) informed experts who actually know better (rare) and shills.
When someone compares a non-Western country favourably to a Western one, it challenges the feelings of national and cultural pride held by many Westerners. Then come the objections and whataboutism as people rally to defend their own.
Of course not every Westerner is overly proud of their own country or culture, and I’ve seen plenty of comments in the gist of, “Yeah, holy fuck does the East do X better” on Reddit and the Internet over the years, and not only from “weebs” and Asiaphiles.
Highly opinionated people on reddit generally don’t know what the world is really like but think they do.
As opposed to more humble people. “I know that I know nothing” -Plato
To give an example, I live in Dubai. It’s great here. But I see a lot of people on reddit who have never been here give out a laundry list of why this place is awful.
Let’s just accept we don’t know everything, and every country has some issues. Commenting on the issues when you are neither from the country or live there is cringe.
Typical yes. But it’s mostly from people who have either never lived in Japan, hated their stay there or visited a couple of times and think they are experts on the Japanese culture as a result. There’s practically no facts backing these purely emotional comments. I’ve learned to ignore them, even if it’s not always easy.
Note that where I come from (i.e. France), the opposite is mostly true. Japan is super idealized and everytime someone talks about it, it quickly becomes a game of who knows and likes the country the most. Like I’ve been there 25 times over the last 10 years and one thing I know is that I know practically nothing about the culture. And a dude who’ve been there a couple of time starts giving me lectures about it, like he is 100 times more knowledgeable about how the Japanese live. It’s equally ridiculous.
It’s definitely annoying that you can’t praise aspects of japan on any medium without big brains and bitter ex pats desperate to tell you actually the work culture and suicides etc etc. I honestly don’t understand why miserable ex pats continue to live in places they hate? Some places fit people better and do things better; but every place has its issues.
I think the cause of this is jealousy.
Japanese culture is becoming more popular and many people are interested in Japan.
Many people are learning Japanese.
Japan is No. 1 in surveys of countries people want to travel to.
There is a huge number of people who like Japan and there is a backlash against it.