hello! i have been working on a master plan for a giant bucket-list trip for my partner and i. we were supposed to go at some point in 2021 as a pseudo-honeymoon but obviously COVID nixed that idea — and now i’ve had so much more time to plan (for better or worse).
this trip is a month-long *(maybe more like five-week)* wander beginning/ending in tokyo — and the desired timeline is fall 2023. i have been building a framework around trains / flights / sights and would love some feedback — i have a few specific questions below. *my hobby is trip planning so it’s a bit …overwhelming for most but happy to explain reasoning / thought process as needed.*
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**some general notes about us:**
* i took a few years of japanese in middle/high school (USA) and can fully read hiragana + katakana. also retained a small library of important kanji, and a passable understanding of basic getting-around / asking-basic-questions level japanese. i plan on hitting the books for a bit to freshen up a few months prior to the trip as my partner has zero japanese and i’ll be the point person should we need anything.
* we love long trips and have been on a few together. month-and-a-half in france / month in UK + spain etc. we’ve both also lived abroad previously *(china for me, spain + UK for him)* so being in an unfamiliar environment for a long time is our happy place. we also are pretty good problem solvers and have navigated our way out of some fairly sticky situations with zero issue.
* we own a design firm together *(i’m an architect, he’s an interior designer)* and we have the latitude to basically disappear for a while with some pre-planning. this also sort of informs the places we’re planning on going and things we want to see — some people may find pieces of our itinerary strange as they don’t seem to be common travel destinations. very much into architecture *(brutalist / metabolist / modernist / minimalist — and completely fascinated by japanese temple architecture)* / fashion / designed spaces — and willing to go a long way out of the way just for a photo or a ten-minute sit-and-stare in a lobby somewhere.
* we are likely going to “intelligently wander” when we’re in the cities. what we usually do is pick an attraction / neighborhood / museum etc. to go see and then plan a day around it — leaving room for wandering / finding interesting things along the way. since this itinerary is so far out, my questions are more related to big-picture logistics, rather than individual attractions or sights in specific cities. however, if you read this whole thing and think of something you think we’d love to see, i’d love to know about it.
* this is going to cost a fortune — it’s a big, big bucket-list trip for both of us and we’re willing to shell out as much as needed. i’m currently thinking it’ll cost \~$35k USD at this point. we also like to shop, so… if there are suggestions, budget isn’t important. that goes both ways — we are equally happy eating street food as we are a prix-fixe dinner. also would welcome night-count shifts in any direction — add a few here, subtract a few there etc. *(we also have a hoard of credit card points so we imagine we can offset at least the air travel and maybe the st. regis in osaka + setouchi aonagi in matsuyama)*
* we plan on using takkyubin / luggage forwarding for the trip to not have to worry about a month’s worth of luggage *(and we’re americans so we have a stupid amount of luggage anyway)* the whole time — so we’ll likely have small carry-on size bags with us at all times, with the bigger bags being shipped between destinations. this is partially why we’ve chosen to stay at hotels as we’ve heard that it’s really easy for hotel staff to handle takkyubin. *(we also really like nice hotels haha)*
* we are two gay men — fairly certain this is a non-issue, but wanted to make that clear should any suggestions need to take that into account. *(i also have a ton of tattoos so i know that 99% of onsens are a no-go)*
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**the current itinerary:**
**tokyo** — 7 nights — staying at [hoshinoya tokyo](https://hoshinoya.com/tokyo/en/)
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*(shinkansen)*
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**kyoto** — 6 nights — staying at [sowaka](https://sowaka.com) (or) [hoshinoya kyoto](https://hoshinoya.com/kyoto/en/)
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*(shinkansen / local express / bus)*
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**yoshino** (nara) — 2 nights — staying at [yoshino cedar house](https://www.yoshinocedarhouse.com)
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*(taxi)*
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**koya-san** — 1 night — staying at ?
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*(bus / train)*
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**osaka** — 3 nights — staying at [st. regis](https://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/osaxr-the-st-regis-osaka/)
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*(shinkansen / local express)*
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**setouchi art islands** *(naoshima / teshima etc.)* — 4 nights — staying at [benesse house](https://benesse-artsite.jp/en/stay/)
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*(ferry)*
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**takamatsu** — 3 nights — staying at [royal park hotel](https://ryl.anabuki-enter.jp/en/)
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*(local express / shinkansen)*
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***day trip to rabbit island***
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*(shinkansen)*
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**hiroshima** — 3 nights — staying at [kiro](https://www.thesharehotels.com/kiro/?wovn=en)
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*(ferry)*
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**matsuyama** — 2 nights — staying at [setouchi aonagi](https://www.setouchi-aonagi.com)
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*(flight)*
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**tokyo** — 3 nights — staying at [ddd](https://dddhotel.jp/en)
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**questions:**
* sowaka in kyoto is an old ryokan in the middle of town, super gorgeous. hoshinoya kyoto is in arashiyama, outside of the center but also gorgeous. would we get annoyed heading into town all the time from arashiyama? it looks amazing — but a simultaneous pro and con is that it’s only reachable by boat (they hang out as needed to shuttle guests back and forth). we are planning on a half day in arashiyama but most of our spots to see are in and around the center of town. it’s a \~45min trip one way based on transit — just wondering if anyone has any experience with staying in arashiyama vs. central kyoto. *(honestly leaning towards sowaka, but open to suggestions!)*
* one possible shift to the itinerary would be to make the yoshino / koya loop + osaka, then head to kobe to rent a car and drive down awajishima, hop a ferry to shikoku and get to takamatsu that way. then we’d hit the art islands and proceed to rabbit island / hiroshima etc. there is some interesting work by [kenzo tange](http://www.city.minamiawaji.hyogo.jp/uploaded/attachment/14445.pdf) and [tadao ando](https://www.yumebutai.co.jp/lang/en.html) on awaji *(including* [*a hotel commissioned by toto*](https://www.seawind-awaji.jp) *of all things)* and it’s where so much of japan’s incense comes from, which is definitely a shared interest of ours. would this jog be worth it? anyone spent time on awajishima? renting a car isn’t really the issue as i have right hand drive experience and have rented cars / driven all over the world — and i have one of those international driving permits.
* koya-san — we want to do a temple stay, but not sure which one is the best choice. japan-guide does have an exhaustive list but would love feedback if anyone has been and had a good experience.
* another itinerary shift would be [guntu](https://guntu.jp) — a seemingly magical *(and eye-wateringly expensive)* ship-ryokan. it leaves from a marina close to fukuyama in onomichi. they do have an itinerary that winds eastward around the art islands and back — so we’d do tokyo / kyoto / yoshino / koya / osaka / takamatsu / rabbit island / guntu / hiroshima / matsuyama / tokyo. the questions are: anyone done this? i’m not a cruise person, but this isn’t exactly a standard-issue cruise — there’s michelin-level sushi and in-room balcony sento baths! also — would we be missing out on the art islands by visiting them this way? i feel like the spontaneity of just wandering around may be lost a bit — but the unique experience and luxury of guntu may make up for it. it would add about $12k to the trip — which i’m fine with, but i guess i need an outside party to tell me that’s insane or 100% worth it.
* art islands — anyone been? if we skipped guntu, would it be worth a little longer stay, shifting from benesse house *(naoshima)* to [yui](http://yui-teshima.com) or similar *(teshima)* after a night or two?
if you’ve read this far, thank you! i would love any and all suggestions — and appreciate all questions and answers. also if you see any inefficiency or holes in my logic, would love to know and figure them out!
10 comments
35k is madness if you ask me, so I assume even without looking at it that it’s all luxury hotels. One thing is that even if the ryokan where you plan to stay might include meal, I would absolutely not do all the dinner, especially as it mean you have to return to the hotel for dinner so it can cut down the time you have to visit other places.
I have nothing against takkyubin, but keep in ming that if you ship in the morning, you likely do not have it the on that night, so your small luggage will be useful. I would personally try to travel a bit light if possible, even if it mean you have to do your laundry every week. In general, I just find it easier to carry my luggage myself and even if you go with bigger, you want some space left for the things you will buy.
Being gay is not a problem, but keep in mind that even for straight people, public display of affection is not really a thing in Japan. For onsen, you can always go to a place that have a private bath, but there is still some ryokan/onsen that are ok with tattoo.
For Kyoto, I would personally stay either around Kyoto station as it’s easy to go to several area from there, or around Higashiyama, as there is also good connection with other area and close to nice area like Gion and Pontocho to end the day. So if you ask me, would say Sowaka in Higashiyama (that is not “middle of the town” that is really east side). Yoshinoya could be cool for a night, but location look like a pain.
Yoshino to Koya-san can be done by public transport, just ship luggage direct to Osaka and it can be done in 2h30 by train. Yes, you could be done by taxe in at least 1h30, but for sure cost much more… but I guess this is a bit useless to say considering your budget.
I do not really understand the Awaji + ferry thing. You rent a car to cross Awaji. What ferry exactly ? You can cross the whole thing by car to reach Tokushima, but at this rate, you might as well drive all the way to Takamatsu. But yes it is an option. Keep in mind that there is an extra charge if you take and drop a car in a different location (but I guess it does not matter). Well, you could even rent the car from Osaka and carry your luggage yourself on that day.
As to say if it’s worth it or not, it’s really up to you and want you are interested to see. If you ask me, I would not even go to Naoshima as I do not care at all about art. Actually one thing I found interesting is the carpentry tool museum in Kobe, that is not only about tools but also about carpentry and traditional building techniques, so it might be of some interest for you.
One thing I would actually recommend is so shift more days in Tokyo at the end of the trip, so you can do the bulk of your Tokyo shopping at that moment and not have to lug even more stuff all around Japan.
Even luggage services want you to stay under 160cm for luggage (That’s linear cm: L + W + H), I would recommend packing light and doing laundry.
I also recommend slow/ recovery days so you don’t burn yourself out, you can do laundry those days if you want. If it was me I’d pack 8 days worth of stuff and do laundry once a week with one extra set just in case, but I know I’m a rare breed that’s ok with frequent laundry.
I second putting Tokyo at the end, much of your shopping will be done there, you don’t want to haul all of that around with you. Feel free, once you’ve arrived in Tokyo at the end of your trip, to purchase another set of luggage to take home all the things you buy (if you are indeed purchasing that much).
I’ve gotta think about the rest of your itinerary before I comment, but looks fun! Hope you have a blast!
1. It’s either autumn foliage at Mt. Yoshino or at Kyoto with your trip plan. If you are coming in the fall during the peak foliage season in Kansai, then Mt. Yoshino is perfectly skippable – it would be cold, somewhat miserable and perfectly skippable.
2. 4 days at Art Islands with Naoshima as a hub is perhaps a day too much. If you want to visit Shodoshima, you may consider a better suited hub to do so.
3. I like Takamatsu, but unless you plan to visit Marugame and Kotohira – 3 days is well too much time spent there.
4. Okunoshima day trip makes sense out of Hiroshima or Onomichi – not out of Takamatsu.
5. Note that some areas in Japan (including Kyoto) do require some planning considering that eg. temples are usually starting to get closed earlier (4-4:30pm) in October, unless there is a light-up event.
6. For a modern architecture fan – visiting Kanazawa would make more sense than eg. Matsuyama. And yes, Tokyo and Osaka have plenty to offer to the fans of brutalist design.
7. Awaji is fine to visit.
Lots of similarity with how my wife and I travel — I’ve spent weeks planning our trips (doing the equivalent of FT work…). Most of your thoughts seem spot-on, though I’m not sure what one would do in multiple days in Takamatsu.
Have you considered renting a car? In our past two trips, we’ve rented cars in Kyoto, Wakayama, Kyushu, Shikoku. I’m kicking myself for not doing so earlier. It takes a bit to get used to driving on the left, but I found it fairly easy (though we regularly drive in major east coast metropolitan areas). Especially in more rural areas, it wasn’t stressful at all to drive. It makes getting off the beaten path way easier. Last time, we did Fukuoka – Arita – Beppu – Koishiwara – Kitakyushu (in 48 hours), ferry from Kitakyushu to Matsuyama, then Matsuyama – Kochi – Tokushima – Takamatsu in a few days. In Takamatsu, we did a self-organized udon tour that would be impossible to do with public transit. We visited lots of ceramic artists and knife makers off the beaten path that way. FWIW, your Japanese is way more advanced than mine was when we did the above trip.
In Koyasan, I can highly recommend Ichijo-In. Normally, i hesitate to recommend because it’s $$$, but it seems within your trip budget — and the food we had there was amazing.
Edits w/ additional thoughts:
For art islands, that’s a long time. We spend a day on Naoshima (ferry from Takamatsu in the early AM, bike rental, museum visits, ferry and train to Osaka in PM) and it felt like we did/ saw almost everything there. But we travel faster than most find comfortable and save much of our relaxation time for onsen/ryokans…
Luggage forwarding is essential for our trips, which also involve lots of shopping. We usually pack light and plan to do one full wash at a wash-o-mat halfway through. We have two carry-ons and four suitcases, the carry-ons stay with us, the suitcases get shipped strategically a couple of nights ahead (especially as we usually spend only a night or two at each hotel/ryokan). It takes a bit of planning, but we basically make sure we have a suitcase with fresh clothes waiting for us every couple of nights that we then swap out with purchases/souvenirs and dirty clothes.
Depending on your dates, you may get to see the fall leaves and autumn illuminations in Kyoto. Leaves in Kyoto typically change/peak around mid-November and November is a really good month to travel as the weather will be pleasant and you are well outside of typhoon season which lasts into October. We visited Kyoto the last week of November into the first week of December and it was perfect weather, fall leaves were just past their peak, and we got to see tons of autumn illuminations (though there are sooooo many more to see than we had time for).
– [Kyoto: Autumn Leaves Illuminations (mid-Nov to early Dec) ](https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanTravel/comments/mjt5yf/kyoto_autumn_night_illuminations_at_temples_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
– [Kyoto Day Trip: Arashiyama Scenic Railway and Riverboat Ride ](https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanTravel/comments/mibm8t/kyoto_sagano_scenic_train_hozugawa_riverboat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
You’ll have to search for ryokan that allow tattoos (rare) but if you find places with private onsen you can book that’s even better as a couple traveling together anyways. Or, splurge and stay in a room with its own, private in room and bath. These are pricey but worth the splurge in my opinion. Search [Tattoo Friendly Japan ](https://tattoo-friendly.jp) and the [Selected Ryokan ](https://selected-ryokan.com/ryokan/location/kyoto-yunohana-hot-spring) websites which both highlight which places have private onsen options.
I would not recommend staying more than one night up in Arashiyama. Staying one night up there would enable you to really enjoy a more relaxed day exploring this area and the ryokan up there are fancy and the upscale experience you are seeking. But yes, it would be super annoying going back into Kyoto each day as it’s very spread out and Arashiyama is more of a day trip from central Kyoto rather than a good sightseeing base. I always recommend staying in the Gion/Higashiyama area as there’s lots of good options there for restaurants, it’s gorgeous at night, and you’re walkable to so many sites in that area of Kyoto. Also, ryokan (even the fanciest) are nice for a couple of nights but for a longer one week stay I’d suggest a nice hotel or restored, private townhouse (Machiya). See [Luxury Hotels Kyoto ](https://www.insidekyoto.com/best-luxury-hotels-kyoto) or [Iori Machiya. ](https://en.kyoto-machiya.com)
Happy Planning!
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HI can I come? I’m up for adoption.. Ok I accept
Heck of a trip there…. we went for 6 weeks in jan to late feb 2016, but mostly snow based… there is simply nothing bad about a long trip in japan..
In fact the snow was soo bad that year where we went, it led to us having luxury experiences in tokyo with the money we saved (and soon spent) …
As for tattoos, my partner is tattoed quite heavily and although an old lady left here or there when she arrived into the onsen, its been clear noone really gave a crap and is an underwhelming issue..
we used takkyubin every time from narita to the snow and back.. damn good service, we’ll use it every time…
“intelligently wander” .. best way to do it… I follow my partners insatiable quality coffee needs and end up having a great time in weird places
>we own a design firm together (i’m an architect, he’s an interior designer) and we have the latitude to basically disappear for a while with some pre-planning. this also sort of informs the places we’re planning on going and things we want to see — some people may find pieces of our itinerary strange as they don’t seem to be common travel destinations. very much into architecture (brutalist / metabolist / modernist / minimalist — and completely fascinated by japanese temple architecture) / fashion / designed spaces — and willing to go a long way out of the way just for a photo or a ten-minute sit-and-stare in a lobby somewhere.
There is so much to do and see in this regard so it’s good you’re not rushing. I hope you also find time to explore more of the vernacular architecture–particularly older shopping districts and homes.
As far as recommendations, there are far too many options to list, but one thing that doesn’t get advertised much and might interest you specifically is the Kyoto International Conference Center.
>yoshino (nara) — 2 nights — staying at yoshino cedar house
If you aren’t making at least a day for Nara city (particularly the Nara Park area), you really should. Yoshino is well outside of Nara city so it won’t really work as base for Nara itself. Also keep in mind that its scenery is very seasonal (not that it isn’t pleasant at all times of year, but it’s especially known for its cherry blossoms and fall foliage)
>setouchi art islands (naoshima / teshima etc.) — 4 nights — staying at benesse house
>takamatsu — 3 nights — staying at royal park hotel
>day trip to rabbit island
>hiroshima — 3 nights — staying at kiro
>matsuyama — 2 nights — staying at setouchi aonagi
At some point in here I would really recommend a some time in Himeji and Onomichi–perhaps a day trip to the former and a night or two in the latter. Kurashiki is also a really nice stop.
>sowaka in kyoto is an old ryokan in the middle of town, super gorgeous. hoshinoya kyoto is in arashiyama, outside of the center but also gorgeous. would we get annoyed heading into town all the time from arashiyama? it looks amazing — but a simultaneous pro and con is that it’s only reachable by boat (they hang out as needed to shuttle guests back and forth). we are planning on a half day in arashiyama but most of our spots to see are in and around the center of town. it’s a ~45min trip one way based on transit — just wondering if anyone has any experience with staying in arashiyama vs. central kyoto. (honestly leaning towards sowaka, but open to suggestions!)
Even without the boat issue at Hoshinoya (which I don’t think is 100% true since there is a path the runs along the west side of the river), Arashiyama is still quite inconvenient. There isn’t any train that will take you directly downtown from there (no matter what line you take, you’ll need to make at least one transfer), and it has very few shops and restaurants open late. It might be nice to spend a night or two there, but I definitely wouldn’t use it as a base.
Sokawa, on the other hand, is within walking distance of food, shopping, entertainment and sightseeing throughout downtown and Higashiyama. At that price point you also might want to consider vacation rentals. You’ll get more privacy and space in exchange for less hands-on care.
Incidentally, I also personally wouldn’t go with the Hoshinoya in Tokyo. I’ve never stayed there and I’m sure it’s a very nice hotel, but the area around Tokyo Station is just so stiff and business-like. I feel like if I were going to shell out a small fortune for a hotel in Tokyo I’d want it to be in great location that had loads to do within walking distance–maybe somewhere like Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ueno, or maybe even Iidabashi (close to Kagurazaka) or Nippori (close to Yanaka).
I would suggest only staying one or two nights at the Hoshinoya in Tokyo. I’ve stayed here before and found it not as conducive to long term stays. The main reason for this is that they operate more like a ryokan than a western hotel, and they way they handle shoes is kinda cumbersome. This whole hotel is shoeless and you keep your shoes on the ground floor in lockers and you need to always ask the staff to bring the shoes out you want. This is fine if you’re only using a pair of sneakers or something but if you have multiple pairs for different occasions then it can feel cumbersome. Would probably suggest the same with Hoshinoya Kyoto. Only stay a few days because shuttling back and forth with the boat will be slow, the novelty will wear out over the course of a week. Another option for Kyoto might be the Ace Hotel. I know Kengo Kuma worked on the project.
Guntu seems pretty cool, and I’ll probably have to add it to my list too. Have you looked into any of the luxury train cruises like the Seven Stars Kyushu, Train Suite Shiki Shima, or the Twilight Express Mizukaze? The only challenge for those is that its somewhat difficult to make reservations due to high demand. IMO with a lot of luxury experiences its hard to say if its 100% worth it or not. Judging by the hotels you’re looking at staying in I wouldn’t say it is insane either. If you put high value in unique experiences it makes sense, the only concern I would have is if it didn’t meet your expectations. It seems like they have a route that includes visiting a lot of the art islands to it seems like it would align with your goals. Also since its a psuedo-honeymoon why not?
A bit late to the thread but I visited the art Islands back in 2013 during the Biënnale festival. While there was a lot going on and my pace fairly quick im wondering if 4 days is perhaps a bit much.
I remember seeing the whole of Naoshima and big parts of 2 other islands just in 1 day. The place is gorgeous though and as an architect you’re going to have a blast visiting the wonderful designs of Tadao Ando!