Immersion Purpose + Time to Do?

6 comments

1. Just spend as much time as you can with the language

2. There’s no consensus as to the best way to learn Japanese, and no consensus on what “immersion” even means.

   Just my opinion though – I would say that “immersion” (in the sense of consuming native Japanese content fully in Japanese) is not all that useful if you don’t understand anything, and more importantly: It isn’t study. If you do it – which I think is all fine and well – don’t count it in the same category as, say, reading a textbook or grinding Anki. If you can’t think of it as a leisure activity and aren’t enjoying the content for itself, either find some easier content that you do enjoy, or go do something more worthwhile with your time because if you’re not having fun and you’re not really learning anything – why bother? You can always come back to things later when it is enjoyable/comprehensible.

   But ultimately, you’ll just have to decide the value of this one yourself. I’m sure there’s some value to constantly listening to Japanese even if you don’t understand anything, but I didn’t find enough there for me to keep doing it.

3. The purpose of “immersion” is to increase your comprehensible input. Comprehensible input is the amount of language you can understand (or mostly understand) when engaging with the language.

   The reason why some people recommend cramming vocab and grammar before immersion is that immersing with native content before having a strong language base will not be nearly as efficient because you will waste a lot of time just not understanding anything, and therefore not learning. Plus, there is also a very high chance of frustration and burnout, although it is possible to continue like that with a dictionary if you have a motivation of steel. We don’t recommend it though.

   That said, there are definitely lower level options which help you interact with Japanese before you cram all those words and grammar points. We highly recommend finding some low level content to read/engage with and starting there, then slowly level your content up as you learn new words and grammar points.

4. > Immersion. People seem very back and forth about this and I’m not sure what direction I should be going. Some say to immerse immediately and others say to wait until you’ve learned 7,000+ words.

   The thing to understand is that at the beginning, all the stuff you’re doing with RTK, Core deck, Cure dolly, etc is supposed to get you to a point where you can immerse (= consume some kind of native media that interests you).

   That’s really it. There’s nothing extra or special about it. Some people can skip that initial part because they are okay with just jumping into native media and flail around blind while looking up individual words or grammar (or anything) on their own in a non-structured manner until they “get it”. I know because I was one of those people (and I wouldn’t recommend it). Some other people want a more structured approach and a more solid foundation, which is totally fine (and actually studies shows it’s more beneficial for adult learners).

   So don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing. I personally recommend to make sure to have a minimal set of “focused study” activities you do every day (like anki reviews, watch a cure dolly video, read one grammar chapter, whatever) and then spend the rest of the time you have on native media. Obviously at the beginning that “native media” will be hard, confusing, and not very useful. A lot of time will be spent trying to find something that you **can** consume (try a lot of different manga, games, anime, etc until something clicks) and that’s just how language learning works, but while you’re doing that you’re also going to progress on your study so you’ll slowly get better and eventually you’ll get to a point where you don’t need to study anymore and it’s going to be 100% just immersion.

5. I think consuming Japanese native content is effective to track your progress. Grinding vocab / kanji and grammar should still be your main input for learning.

   For example, start with a TV show, web news article, etc and see how much effort it took you to understand it completely.

   Go back to grinding vocab / kanji and grammar for a few weeks, then try again and see how much you improved.

   Keep repeating that and stay motivated. Be persistent and give yourself time to see the results.

6. Language teacher here:

   For the umpteenth time: the pedagogical concept of immersion in FL studies is different than high-input “immersion.” This will be important in a moment.

   IMO a decent textbook with a gradual increase of more and more input is best. The textbook will slowly feed you vocabulary and grammar in a logical way, which enables you to handle that native material. Cracking open anything more than picture books will immediately overwhelm a beginner. A Japanese author isn’t taking a language learner into account, they’re writing for an audience who already understands Japanese.

   To me:

   Start with a textbook, learn the kana. Listen to a lot of Japanese, but don’t force yourself to understand everything. Get used to the sounds of Japanese and eventually you’ll pick up more and more as you continue to study. (90% textbook; 10% native materials.)

   If you’re using the Genki series, Minna no Nihongo or any other two-part series, by the time you finish the second book you’ll be ready to start reading simple manga. I’d also start an intermediate text book series. Continue to read and listen to Japanese as you study. (About 75%-25%)

   By the time you finish Tobira or Quartet (10%-90%), you should be ready for YA/light novels, newspapers and maybe some lighter contemporary popular fiction. You’ll also be in a good place for immersion (living in Japan and really practicing your Japanese), and relying solely on Japanese books, movies and so on (100% native materials).