I think new language learners have a tendency to just ‘jump into it,’ with the idea that you’ll make progress no matter what you do. I think this is a *huge problem* and leads people to waste hundreds of hours with no progress towards their goals. This is because short term language learning resources and long term language learning resources *directly* conflict with each other.
What’s the first thing people think about when learning a new language? If you live where I am in the US, it’s probably Duolingo. I think this is fabulous, because it’s accessible and can show you some basic phrases and vocabulary. If you’re going to Japan for travel and want some basic phrases down, this is a great resource. The problem lies in people thinking they can extrapolate this progress they see with apps like Duolingo in the short term to achieve a long term goal of proficiency. They think that if they complete the whole course on Duolingo, they’re going to be able to read simple novels with relative ease. Yeah, not happening.
On the flipside, if you ask about starting language learning on this subreddit, the first thing people will do is recommend immersion. Although I’m a huge proponent of immersion and have seen incredible progress in multiple languages (including English, which I learned through YouTube before moving to the US), I think this idea that everyone should use immersion is disingenuous. Frankly, most people don’t have the time or motivation to learn a language through immersion. They have a spur of the moment interest that won’t last more than a month. These people are perfectly valid, and resources exist for these people as well. But if you immerse in Japanese for an hour a day for a month, *you will get nowhere.* If you immerse for an hour a day for a year, *you will get nowhere.* For immersing to be worth it, you should really be spending >3 hours per day with your TL. And even still, realize that it will take *years.*
This is also why I sympathize with the issue of language learning in schools. People say it sucks, and I kind of agree, but from the perspective of a teacher, they have to be able to demonstrate that a student made progress regardless of how many semesters they learned the language. Typically I think this benefits the short term learners and sabotages the long term ones, but no matter which system they use, someone loses.
8 comments
Honestly I think this is completely backwards. Just doing whatever, even if suboptimal, would be much better than the typical self learner pattern of spending about 90% of the time researching and arguing about learning methods and 10% of it actually learning.
Before I started, I knew someone who had N1 so I had some advantage at least, in two ways.
First I understood the absurd amount of hours it takes.
Second, he was into Anki and I got into it as a result…
>if you ask about starting language learning on this subreddit, the first thing people will do is recommend immersion
I actually don’t think that this is true at all. By far the #1 recommendation for beginners on this subreddit is to start with a textbook like Genki. High input immersion for complete beginners often gets critcized here.
Another fellow teacher here. I think it has to do with mindset, goals, expectations and actually doing the work.
Your mindset towards language learning should be flexible. It’s not always going to be fast and making gains. You’ll get mired sometimes or you’ll be putting in a lot of work but getting little reward. What should you do? Change it up. Put down the textbook for a graded reader. Find a conversation parter. Things will fall into place.
Flexibility also means being open up a wide array of sources. As a teacher and tutor I like buying and trying different textbooks. Not all authors are equally gifted in writing. Even as a Genki Stan, I bring in other sources when I’m using it to tutor. Using other sources goes beyond just using other textbooks: read, watch TV, hire a tutor, take a class…. Try it all.
Now, goals! Plural. “Fluent” is a fine goal, but it’s vague and has one step. “Take the N5 this December” is better because it’s attainable, you only need to work on one thing, and it’s that first step to “fluent.” Even if you fail, you can manage your expectations.
There’s going to be false starts and scary moments. You will fail. You should stop and see how and why these issues come up. Get a realistic sense of where you’re at, what you need to do and get cracking.
It’s great to envision what you’re going to do, but you have to follow through. I can make the best study schedule and use the best materials ever, but if I don’t actually study, it’s pointless.
These things, I believe, can help everyone – self-study learners to people on classes. You might be somewhat limited on some cases, but you’re not bound by law.
I can’t really understand how immersion isn’t useful . It’s how we learned how to speak our native languages. You listen to your parents talk to you, listen to everyone around you speaking constantly as a baby. Eventually you start picking up stuff and can form words, then sentences. Then you learn how to read and write.
With Japanese, everything I know is because I spent hours watching anime and Jdramas, for years. I started using duo to help with vocabulary, but most of the time I can listen to the audio on duo and can understand the sentence, even if I can’t read the kanji.
Maybe it depends on how you use your immersion, or some just take longer than others until you see results. But immersion is so helpful. Heck sometimes I just have on a Jdrama or anime I’ve seen playing in the background while I’m working or cooking, just to get used to hearing it.
No matter which way you cut it, language learning is a huge timesink. There’s no method that doesn’t take thousands of hours. Even learning Japanese in college expects like what, 14 semesters for N1? People who are going to succeed will succeed because they have the drive to put in those hours, otherwise the amount of people who know Japanese as a second language wouldn’t be hilarously small.
The only impressive thing you can get done in the first month is to rehearse a few lines, like an actor. That’s rarely anyone’s goals – and if so, the methods are obvious: tape recorder, coach, put in the hours. So there’s no point giving advice to anyone who knows they’re a one-monther.
Everything else: textbook, cramming vocabulary, baby-brain watching some animu, those won’t bear fruit in that time scale. You can’t grow most crops in a month either.
This is my personal opinion.
I thought language learning and dieting were very similar.
1) People who start without a plan often get frustrated on the way.
2) People often find the right way for themselves later, but they can’t know them at first. Because each person has their own way of being suitable.
3) Even if you keep doing inefficient things, it won’t work. On the contrary, even if you can show the effect efficiently, if you finish it in a short period of time, it will return to normal.
4) If you have two goals, a big goal and small goals along the way, you will get a sense of accomplishment, so it’s easy to last.
5) If everyone can take these measures well from the beginning, everyone is not having a hard time.😂