To start out, I want to clarify that I do know the difference between watashi/boku/ore. I just have a question about the usage of ore specifically.
In a show I’m watching, a character that doesn’t seem much like the “ore” type almost exclusively uses “ore”. I know ore can range from kind of a tough guy pronoun to a default older man pronoun depending on the area/situation, but sometimes I still get confused about it. The show the character is from doesn’t have a very large English speaking audience, let alone a bilingual one, and I’ve seen multiple people question the implications his pronoun choice has on his characterization.
The character in question is a caregiver/protector type of figure who generally does anything he can to serve people, going so far as to get on his knees to speak to them. He often comes off as a bit naive. He fights sometimes and proves that he’s a very good fighter and has a strict code of honor, yet he lets himself get beat up frequently by the person he is sworn to protect. I take him as more of a “watashi” type, yet he always uses “ore”, even when talking to superiors.
Can I get some cultural context to this? I might be overthinking it and it really is just meant to be a neutral pronoun in this case, lol. I hadn’t even noticed it until someone else brought it up. How much characterization have I been missing out on by not paying attention to pronouns?
5 comments
The pronoun for some “naive” males would be 「僕/ぼく/ボク」I guess. Surely some characteristic of a person partially determines what pronoun to be used among the options.
For a female, that would be 「わたし」 ,「私」 or 「あたし」and each of them has their unique implications for one’s characteristics, whether she’s naive/sweet or more open-minded/extroverted. Same goes to male’s equivalents.
But It’s just a slight of connotation, not a strict cultural bind for those pronouns. So It’s sounds still natural to me if a naive man calls himself 「俺/オレ」 over other available options.
Well a lot of media seems to imply that there is an “俺” type personality in real life, but there really actually isn’t. It is a very ordinary pronoun that is used by many types of Japanese men ranging from teens to 40s and 50s (maybe older too but I don’t talk to any so I don’t want to say). In fact I would say that I probably hear it more than 僕, and definitely much more than 私. It is just a normal pronoun. Though I would guess that almost all “tough guys” use 俺, not everyone who uses 俺 is a “tough guy”. In fact the majority are not.
You’re right, I wouldn’t overthink this too much. You’re probably not missing any characterisation in this specific case.
Outside of fiction 俺 is the most common and thus most mildly flavored masculine + casual first-person pronoun. So if the story is going for a realistic contemporary tone and a pretty average guy says 俺 in casual situations but switches to 僕 or 私 in more formal ones, you can infer that he’s speaking Japanese.
Historically 俺 was super common, especially in some regions (and gender-neutral). 時代劇 doesn’t necessarily use realistic language, but if he’s like a middle-class warrior type I wouldn’t question it at all. When 僕 was first introduced (part of the Meiji-era cultural changes) it was student language – if the writers is trying to convey a thoughtful and polite character who is more old-fashioned than that, there’s a good chance they’ll pick 拙者 instead.
You probably should pay more attention to pronouns and keigo, just because as L2 learners we tend to not give them enough weight. Occasionally pausing to wonder why is enough though – I’d advise staying out of arguments that cite pronoun use as evidence of anything.
Ore is a casual pronoun. Deliberate casualness fits a tough guy character for its abrasiveness. Spontaneous casualness fits children and naive adults for its artlessness.
Regular people would choose their pronoun depending on the situation.
俺 is the most standard first person pronoun for males, while 僕 is usually used earlier on. 僕 is softer, but also more ‘boyish’, so to speak, which is why it gets used for more naive characters because, well, naive = not fully matured, so using a more ‘immature’ (as in growth, not as in jokes) pronoun gets this across.
Now, where this does get a bit messy if when women get involved. A lot of women tend to prefer men who use 僕 over 俺, because guys who try to act deliberately masculine are seen to be a bit forceful. This results in an interesting situation where one of the types of man most likely to use 僕 is actually pick-up artists.
In general, that rule applies. It all depends on the impression you’re trying to give. 俺 is masculine, rough, but also the generic pronoun for fully grown guys, so basically any guy can use it. 僕 is softer, but still with a masculine tint. 私 can be a bit odd, as it’s formal for guys and feminine for girls, but guys who are a bit ‘proper’ can still use it (hell, I do all the time, and no-one questions it)
TL;DR: though there are some differences in feel for the different pronouns, any guy can use any of them, and can even swap between them depending on conversation partner and context. You shouldn’t think about it too much.
One thing that I will say I noticed, is the giant king from Ousama Ranking uses 私. As in, the guy who can single-handedly destroy an army by farting in their general direction doesn’t use 俺, he uses 私 in regular speech. Meanwhile, it’s his immature and impulsive son who uses 俺. Just some food for thought.