I think the title is self explanatory. I tried to negotiate this but basically they said because it’s in my contract they will deduct from my deposit the costs for cleaning the apartment, replacing the tatami in one of the rooms and cleaning the a/c which in total is 65000 JPY. Actually they discounted 10000 JPY from what’s in the contract. How generous!
Is this shit legal? I mean these are terms in the contract but the costs are for cleaning and restoration which obviously is not going to happen as the building is getting torn down. I have no leverage unfortunately because this is going to be deducted from my deposit and transferred to my bank account.
I was on a fixed term contract so there is no compensation for moving out. I’ve lived in this apartment for 5 years if it matters. Is there anything I can do further or just live with the fact they are ripping me off?
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People can put anything they want on a contract and if you sign it, you agree to it. Exceptions exist where perhaps the interpretation of the contract is unreasonable. You would have to engage a lawyer in that case which will most certainly cost more than 65000 JPY.
It does sound sketchy.
What does it say on your contract? Unless you’ve damaged the tatami mats more than normal wear and tear expected of 5 years of use, it’s not your responsibility to replace them even if the building wasn’t scheduled to be demolished.
I’ve read up a little on Japanese websites and the general consensus is if the landlord isn’t currently searching for new tenants before the demolition you’re supposed to get your full deposit back. Find your local rental association or consult with the international centre closest to you. They’ll have more info on who to contact and how to proceed.
Afaik, the tatami already loses 20% of its value per year so even if the apartment was not being torn down you wouldn’t have to pay anything.
The cleaning fee is understandable. You have to pay it at the end but they could say that every tenant pays the pre-moving cleaning fee at the end of their contract. A bit twisted, but understandable.
Legally, you agreed to pay a cleaning fee at the end of your contract, and that is technically unrelated whether they actually clean the place after you leave or how much that costs.
Ethically, they should refund you the deposit in its entirety. Charging you the cleaning fee in this case is their choice but it is a petty one.
Edit: Of course the contract wording is not the last word on this matter. But if you press them on the letter of the law, they may just hire a cleaner to clean the room for the amount of the deposit deducted for cleaning.
What I meant to say is that they have an ethical obligation to deal with you fairly. They already reduced the cleaning fee by ¥10000, so they they recognize the situation somewhat. You need to negotiate further to get the whole deposit back. In Japan this negotiation depends more on the tone you use than on argument related to the literal exchange of service X for payment Y.
> I was on a fixed term contract so there is no compensation for moving out. I’ve lived in this apartment for 5 years if it matters.
And they just said, “demolition, so move”? If you’ve been there that long, and they want you to leave so they can tear it down, I believe they should be paying you to move. After that long, ‘fixed term’ would no longer apply.
Give Consumer Affair Center (消費者センター) a call. I’m pretty sure they would side with you, and you can let them talk or give a strongly-worded letter to the owner signed by their own lawyers. That should give the owners a scare.
It’s hard to say without knowing how exactly the contract is worded.
I’m not sure what the rules are if it’s worded specifically as a cleaning fee, but if it’s a standard deposit they should be providing you with an itemized list of costs. Whether they can charge you even though the building is getting torn down I’m also not sure, but for normal deposit deductions, you would not get charged the full price, as things like tatami are subject to depreciation. You can read more about the specifics of depreciation [here](https://www.juutakuseisaku.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/juutaku_seisaku/tintai/pdf/310-6-jyuutaku_eng.pdf) (also why you should demand an itemized bill)
This pdf also has lots of detailed examples as well as agencies you can contact for consultation and or legal assistance
The previous apartment that I lived in for 8 years tried to charge me a whopping 350,000 yen for cleaning and damages for:-
Damages to the walls – caused by a cat. I didn’t keep a cat. I hate cats.
The dirty stove – We used a portable gas cooker during my tenure there. The dirty stove is on the previous owners.
Damages due to water – other residents also reported water leaking on from the ceiling usually when it rains. Completely has nothing to do with me.
Broken windows glass – caused by strong wind and when I entered the apartment they stated that they would replace them and I wouldn’t be charged for the cost.
My father consulted a lawyer who stated that I didn’t have to pay so we didn’t but they tried to intimidate us pay. They took the 100k deposit and stopped bothering us any further for the rest of the amount as we wouldn’t comply.
If it truly bothers you to no end I suggest you consult a lawyer about it.
You signed a contract, so you should pay…… except, they’re breaking the contract by forcing you to leave. Maybe follow u/izayoi’s advice and contact someone that can do something.
First of all dont sign any paper . Secondly, are they forcing you to leave under contract? If yes they cant simply forve you because you are under contract and if no choice they have to pay you instead. But do talk to lawyer as mentioned by other commentors here. But DONT SIGN ANYTHING in advance.
Are you being forced out early by the demolition? As in you leased for two years but they told you you have to leave at such in such date? If so you are entitled to lots of compensation as they can not legally change the contract ending date. If it’s a 2 year lease you are entitled to all 2 years.
You can simply refuse to leave and they have no legal standing to remove you as long as you abide by the contract lease agreement. Also, if they want you out early they have to pay you to leave. I got 600,000 yen when this happened to me.
I guess they could argue they might be using the tatami and AC elsewhere.
I am sorry I don’t have any advice but I would be absolutely LIVID. the gall of these rat bastards to charge you for that. how fucking disrespectful
Don’t pay your last month rent.
I think this thread is living proof that the whole deposit/key money thing is a complete scam.
Dishonest and inflexible realestate company? Japan? Lol
From the comments elsewhere, it seems you are on a long-term lease, not on a “fixed-length one” as you or your landlord makes you believe. Talk to a lawyer, confirm this and tell the landlord that you have decided to renewing your stay and keep living in that apartment to first see them shit their pants. Let him reply angrily for a day or two, then calmly tell them that moving is too expensive and you cannot afford it right now, but thanks to the Japanese tenant laws you can just keep living there.
That’s the way I’d approach the start of negotiations in this situation, specially since they are trying to take advantage of you. Very important that you ask a lawyer or similar to make sure you are on the right, possibly get even a letter signed by them stating your right to renewal.
For instance, the law says:
>The Act on Land and Building Leases states that in the event the term of the lease is specified in the lease contract, the party concerned must notify the other party that the contract will not be renewed six months to one year prior to the end of the lease term. If notice is not given, the lease is considered as having been automatically renewed on the same conditions as the previous contract. This is referred to as “hotei koshin.”
Did they give you 6+ months notice?
is this leopalace by any chance? almost a year ago, got notice of demolition, paid no fees at all, in fact, managed to get them to pay my move in costs into another apartment (and no, not a leopalace either surprisingly). worth pushing for something like that.
Next time demand a clause in the contract that if the landlord kicks you out (such as to demolish the building) it exempts you from all further payments other than the rent for the remaining days you stay there.
Tell them that if they insist on this then they are in breach of contract. It will be impossible for them to fulfill these terms. They are obligated into providing the cleaning service if they insist that the contract terms be fulfilled. The service is provided for you, on your behalf by them.
Breach of contract results in all terms of the contract immediately becoming null and void