My expected working time is 298 hours this month… where do I draw the line?

33 comments

1. I’ll give my take on this as someone who climbed from the bottom to fairly high up the corporate ladder in Japan.

   You are living the dream being able to be paid to get trained in extremely useful skills. Both the tech certs and the language studies are things that will be YOURS, forever, and are incredibly valuable in how much they will help you in your future career. I would absolutely suck it up and just hustle for ~3 years. This is the best and only time in your life you can just put your head down and skill up. No family, no kids, no health concerns. You can get a decade worth of skills and experience in just a short few years.

   I wouldn’t even think about the hours. Many people actually pay to get trained in these skills. That’s just me though.

2. Sounds like a typical black company and on top of that its only 派遣? Up to you if you think the experience is worth it but I’d nope out of there real fast.

3. I was in just about the same situation as a fresh graduate working in finance. Long day at work (08:00-21:00), long commute, barely any time to study at home for the finance-related license that I needed to acquire soon after joining. And being so busy, I needed more than the standard 8 hours of sleep per day, so I would end up sleeping more on the weekends and being thrown off having to get up again on Monday. We keep hearing that Japanese companies will stop being like this, but we all know they won’t.

   My advice is to find a way to have your exam and its study materials be in the same language, even if it ends up being your weaker one. I did all my study in Japanese despite being an English native just because that’s what the test was in, and that’s the language my colleagues got their knowledge in. Absorb the material in the same language you plan to be tested on it in. If the test has to be English, and they won’t “allow” you to study in English officially, can you replace some of your Japanese-language study with English material?

   And if you can delay the exam, that’s that much more study time you get; better to study more and pass than to fail and have to take it again. Sleep eight hours a day no matter what; put it ahead of studying. If you’re not well-rested, or at least as close to well-rested as you can get, you’ll forget things, make mistakes, be irritable, and not retain information.

   I wish you the best — if you pass, you get to have those certifications on your resume forever. And they’re good certifications to have.

4. Your ‘expected working time’ is not 298 hours.

   You’re getting paid to study and get certified.

   Let me repeat that. YOU’RE GETTING PAID TO STUDY AND GET CERTIFIED.

   How hard you want to study is up to you. You can choose not to study on the weekends. You can choose not to study at all. Totally up to you.

   I know many people in law, finance, IT, medicine that also work *crazy* hours – like, literally 300 hours of actual work a month – in the US, Hong Kong, UK, Europe. Ever work at a semi-successful startup? You’ll be lucky if you get 4 hours of sleep a night for *months.* You can’t do it if you don’t enjoy the actual work. Most do *love* the work, and the crazy hours almost becomes a bonding thing that people brag about over the coffee machine.

   And if you get into management / c-suite positions, guess what. Yep, long hours!

   You know why you don’t hear about start-up CEOs, C-suite execs, doctors, lawyers, investment bankers etc. dying due to ‘overwork’? Because most of them love what they do.

   Maybe you don’t. Which is fine. Just don’t confuse it with being a ‘Japan’ thing, because I’ve seen the same story in many countries.

5. Several things, first you are not working 298 hrs / month or anything close. Nobody counts commuting and self study time for working hours. You are really “working” only 8.5*20 = 170 hrs.

   Second, you are getting paid to get certs ? Its usually the other way around.

   Third, why the hell does it take you 1hr 15 min just to wakup and leave ? I take 10 min max man. Just wake up at 7 like a normal person.

6. The only shitty part of this is that they won’t let you study in English for the English exam. I would kill for someone to pay me a full month to cram for a cert. I have to study in my private time and then pay for the exams out of my own pocket.

7. Does the company expect you to be a bilingual expert or were their expectations only that you did the training and exam in japanese, since the work is going to be all in japanese?

   If you’re doing the english exam as an exception they opened for you at your request all the english material studying hours are on you, not on them.

8. Am I right in saying that the classes in Japanese are during your work hours? The extra 2 hours a day and 8 at weekends is your English catch-up time? If so, I’m afraid I’ve got little sympathy; I doubt if many of us here would have their employer grant us extra time to redo a course in English on the company clock.

9. I personally cannot do the hustle culture, as in I physically can’t. But what everyone else is saying is correct – you’re getting paid to get certs, it’s natural to study outside of work in that case, and study and commute don’t count as work hours. It’s a golden opportunity, but not everyone can handle the hustle and that’s fine. You have to weigh the pros and cons yourself, if you can survive this temporary situation and if it turns out to be less temporary than you thought, what other avenues you can explore.

10. There are times in life where you just gotta grind man. Like I’m not one for that lifestyle, but I still recall periods of months where I just had to put in extra work to achieve my goals.

    Plus, why not just take the later test in Japanese? Or the next English test? The world’s not gonna end if you don’t pass your 3/10 test. Calm down and take your weekends off if you’re really that burnt out.

11. Man is working a normal working job and bitching like he is slave labor. M-F 8.5 hours. Commute and study time is your own business dude.

    Back home at 7pm, then having 3 hours a day “to yourself” after work isn’t all that uncommon for most working people.

    Asleep by 10 so he can get a full 8 hours of beauty rest.

    Give me his job!

12. Damn… where does one draw the line in getting paid to study… tough times.

13. Key point: by the time your get your certificate have a job offer lined up.

    From a different company obv., with the decent pay that takes your certification into account.

    Then you have nailed it.

14. Where do you draw the line:

    Clearly your current setup is too taxing, the anguish is evident in your writing.

    So, something has to give.

    It could be rescheduling the test, or finding a sharehouse close to the office, or reshuffling your lifestyle to only 3 things: sleep/exercise/study with a deadline set in stone.

    You’re an adult, you get to choose.

    P.S. steal or buy the study materials in English, d’uh!

15. You’re getting paid to study. CCNA is a valuable certification, CCNP even more-so. Combined with AWS and other qualifications, plus Japanese and English… You’re getting very well set up for success.

    You don’t need “free time” or “a social life” for the next couple of months. It’s inconsequential when you look at it objectively. **You’re getting paid to study.** Put in the time and effort, it will pay off.

16. sent you a pm.

17. What happens if you fail your test? If it’s literally your first month at this job I assume they’ll probably give you another month or two to try and take it again.

    Either way, take care of your physical and mental health. You’ll study and retain info better if you aren’t stressed out and exhausted all the time.

    Screw all these start up rise and grind clowns. That kinda lifestyle is not sustainable long term for most people and everyone I know with that kind of mentality and lifestyle has no, or a shitty personal life. You’ll have a lot of money but no friends or partner outside of work. You can form some close bonds with the people you work with, but don’t count on them being anything but professional and once one of your lifestyles changes so will that friendship.

18. Hang in there man. If you pull through and get one or two of these certifications (Especially CCNA and AWS + N1) You’ll be primed to jump to a different, better company.

    Take what you can from your current workplace and use them as a stepping stone.

19. >My CCNA classes are in Japanese but my exam is in English. I am not allowed to learn the class material in English to help with my understanding of the concepts held during my CCNA class. I sent a email on my 5th day in class mentioning it’s not efficient and at this rate I’m most likely gonna fail the CCNA exam but got a reply saying ‘just learn in English on your free time’.

    Well that part is idiotic, but if thats what they are paying you for, I mean its kinda on them.

    ​

    >‘since you plan to live in Japan, there’s going to be many hurdles in Japanese so if you can’t manage now when can you manage in the future?’

    Yeah that parts 100% not true. Plenty of people work in the tech industry in Japan with far less Japanese knowledge than you have. The better your Japanese is the more potential opportunities there are sure, but there are companies that operate partly or even primarily in English here in Japan for the reason that English is the lingua franca of the tech community for the most part, and its a far more global language than Japanese. If you’re aiming to work for a very traditional Japanese company or one that is focused solely on the domestic market yeah Japanese is going to be necessary, but its not 100% required to live and work successfully in Japan in that industry.

20. Hang in there, as other have said it’s a valuable skill to know IT, Japanese, and English.

    If it makes you feel better most Japanese I know that went to MBA or LLM in the US do the same. Work 10 hours a day, study for 6-7 more at night and in the morning and on weekends for a year to prepare for LSATs, GMAT, applications, essays, interviews. And the they get into these programs, quit their job, and go pay $40,000 a year in tuitions for 1-2 years to get a advanced degree. It’s brutal work for sure

21. To be honest, your schedule seems reasonable. Bottom line is you are home by 7pm and leave at 7:15am, Monday to Friday and are “at work” 8.5 hours a day. You should have plenty of time for personal tasks and some studying.
    This is not a Japan “death from overwork” situation.

    I would stop saying your working time is 298 hours… you lose all credibility.

    Perhaps utilize your commute to study?

22. In Japan, the Work Style Reform Legislation was passed in 2018 to address “karoshi” (death from overwork) limits overtime, or work beyond eight hours a day and 40 hours a week, to 45 hours of overtime a month and 360 hours of overtime per year.
    You should check if the amount of work they’re making you do is legal, but regardless you should limit it for your own health.
    https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/global-hr/pages/japan-trimming-work-hours.aspx

23. You are on a Reddit where the majority of people work all day doing something they hate and THEN dream of spending all night studying for some buzzword tech certs but don’t because they are too tired / depressed / drunk so honestly I doubt you’ll get much sympathy chap.

    Why the rush to pass? Delay the exam by a couple of months, I guarantee they’ll prefer it to you failing the first attempt and you’ll *gasp* actually understand the concepts.

24. A different perspective, if you don’t want to work those hours, don’t live in Tokyo.

    Life in rural / regional Japan is a lot less stressful that living in the big cities.

    You won’t get the same opportunities but those opportunities come at a cost, it’s worth considering what you really want from life and broaden your horizons to see if somewhere else offers what you are looking for.

25. You need to do a lot of smart work. For example, in IT you need to practice to code before learning. As I see you are into networking, try if you can practice what u have learned till now, in that way you can actually learn way more than “studying”. You will get used to the system and you will find a better way to do things.

    Throw away the books you have, learn to use google. I would say getting certificates is not the hard part in IT. Getting a job is(technical interview), most of the time a skilled interviewer won’t even care about your certifications.

26. You have two options:
    1) Go for English, then the Japanese does not matter, so just half-ass it (be friendly though) and make sure you get your English CCNA skill up. You will have 8 hours on the weekend+2 hours of commute during the weekdays. 64 hours a month on the weekend and 40 hours during the week. It will take you less than 2 months (assuming you have started already). Delay your Japanese to hold them off, schedule an exam on your own time, pay $300 and pass. Even if they fire you, you can still pass and look for a new job.
    2) Go for Japanese. Spend 10 hours a day + 8 hours both weekends on learning specific vocabulary, Japanese and CCNA in Japanese. That would be around 264 hours of study plus whatever you have already picked up. Delay things for a month and you are up to 528 hours, do you really not think you can pass?

    As soon as you get CCNA they will get off your back, they will allow you to study more, but they are already earning their money back, so they won’t kick you out.

27. If it’s stressing you out delay and have the extra time to study and give yourself some time.

    Don’t listen to all these grind hounds, grinding is good for sprints but not a marathon. If it’s taking a toll on you delay the test to give yourself more time.

    Don’t live to work, but work to live.

    Remember health and mental health first otherwise everything else falls into pieces.

    Also screw your boss saying it’s the Japanese way and be prepared for this in Japan it’s such excuse and have seen it too many times. Don’t fall for it, it’s just fake peer pressure about the work culture that bosses make up to drum up support for their way of doing things.

28. For what it’s worth, you still get paid and I’m not. Kinda mandatory moved here last July as a new grad and I don’t know enough Japanese to be working for a Japanese company. Not native enough to teach English either. Still unemployed.

    I’m quite lucky I got Business-IT related degree that I have a chance at Data Analytics/Software Engineer roles. People have a bunch of openings to be rejected, I don’t even have that much to apply. I can’t even work part-time due to lack of Japanese. Trying my best to keep learning, working and putting projects on my resume. The jobs that would be easy for me to get into got a big wall with “Japanese required” writing on it.

    I recently got my first interview, did tech challenge, passed to final stage and rejected.

    I’m counting my coins for breakfast with tears.

    I know it’s hard, but there are people who don’t get a chance like you, there are people who needs to worry about what can they find to eat to end the hunger across the globe. I still got my coins. You still got your job.

    It’s hard and it will be hard af but you can do it. Take it as a challenge to grow. Grow hard and f that company when you’re ready to move on. Those certs are yours, and you can use it as tickets to a better company.

    Take my favorite quote from House Atreides “Here I am, Here I remain” *counting coins in tears*

    I’m jealous you’re worrying about getting fired.

29. Ok so you are clearly overwhelmed. BREATHE!

    If I was in your place, at the current moment I won’t panic much about the Japanese Keigo etc and just focus on CCNA

    Regarding work life balance – it’s unfortunate but as you want to break in into IT from a non IT you will need to focus for a bit.

    Focus on CCNA, say goodbye to hobbies for the moment and skip general learning until your CCNA is done.

    If you are able to do something on your commute – like listen to CCNA in English do that.

    Be more mindful of your time. Focus on one goal at a time.

30. わがまま. downvoted

31. Do you think you can physically hold on? If so, just grind on, get the certificates, then you can make decisions after that.

32. Personally I draw it at 160

33. I worked a truly criminal amount of hours and had no life outside of work when I was 22. Easily worked 12 hour days for 3 months straight multiple times. That was almost 20 years ago though.