I’m so sorry to bother this sub with even more divorce posts but im looking for some advice and this is probably the only place I can find it.
I’ve been married to a Japanese National for over 15 years, am a permanent resident, have a decent job at a Japanese company, a house and a kid.
Since a year or two ago i have been wanting to divorce and since i’m a foreign dad I am on the losing end. I knew this before I started the proceedings so Im well aware.
We are currently visiting a mediator once in two months which is ridiculously scarce. These are two elderly people in their 60s or 70s that get to decide YOUR future.
I have been told to use a lawyer but i want things to end amicably and honestly I dont have 600000 yen for a lawyer.
Now here is the deal. I offered that: She and my daughter (5 year old) can stay in the house, i will leave everything except my own stuff. On top of that i will have to pay child support and living costs 150000 yen a month because she cannot work until the kid goes to school. This is for two years.
We are also discussing transferring my wife’s name to the house so that she owns the house. When she is able to work. This is needed because the house was bought for my daughter. If it would remain in my name and I would remarry the new wife would get half the house according to the law and we both dont want that.
The last thing we need to discuss is the remaining child support until my daughter becomes 20 years old and the mediators told me i should pay her one third of my wage, which is almost 50% more than law stipulates.
I think this is insane but I also feel sorry because im bringing the divorce to the table and put my wife and my kid through this. My wife told me I can see my kid and I assume I can believe her because she has noone else to go to. Both her parents are dead and has almost no family left which is also one of the reasons im feel i should pay. I feel sorry for her, my wife has had a rough life.
I want to divorce but i would die if I was unable to meet my kid so im doubting if i should continue this horrible relationship just to meet my kid.
Or should I suck it up and pay. I would be able to pay i guess but i think i would be living on dry bread and water for the first couple of years assuming that my salary will hopefully increase in the future.
Sorry for the long post.
10 comments
The question is why do you want a divorce so badly that you are willing to give up everything you have right now? Is there any way for you and wife to talk over and continue on for the sake of the kid? And how do you think divorce will guarantee a better life especially in a country where it’s frown upon?
You say the mediation process (by which I assume you mean what is done through the family court) is unfair to you, but aren’t you being unfair to your family?
The fact that you are going through the mediation process makes it seem that there are no grounds for divorce (extramarital affair, DV etc). If this is wrong, please correct me.
You will potentially lose everything. Currently, there is no joint custody of children. It will be left to your wife’s whim.
Why won’t she accept your offer? If she does, you can just do the paperwork at city office and end it amicably. No need for lawyers or mediation.
Tough situation all round.
Sounds about as fucked up and biased as I’d expect “mediation” here to be.
“ My wife told me I can see my kid and I assume I can believe her because she has noone else to go to.“
Remeber. That statement is true now. People/situations do change and resentment will build fast once you make her a single mother. And whilst family influence is often a bad thing. Having none at all must be worse.
Obviously, this should also greatly affect your decision as to the timing of when you reassign property. Rush into that at your peril.
My advice, stay married. Rent a small place away from the home. Cite work commitments. Your wife will just say you travel a lot. Everyone saves face. Try that for a few years a least. 5 seems real young to see a parent leave.
On the support side, one third sounds bogus as fuck. I know people earning very decent wages only paying 80-100k to support their kid. So whilst it might be a third for some people I suspect there is a cap.
Also, you’ve been feeling this for a year or two. The early years of raising a child can be tough. People change. You, your partner, the child. If the relationship isn’t toxic, and it doesn’t sound it, you shouldn’t rush this.
We are told to expect blissful relationships the whole course but that isn’t true for the majority. Sometimes you might just be treading water.
I know one couple in a separate bedrooms, split lives, type arrangement for a very long time. That is about to end now the youngest is leaving for Uni. Yes. That’s keeping up appearances, an economic partnership or whatever. But I’d take that over the situation all the divorced dads I know have.
In summary. Cards. You hold none. An agreement on access and visitation will not be binding. Assume she will congregate with other single mothers, assume she may decide not to work to punish you.
Those are harsh words but you say yourself you’d die if unable to see your kid. These are the stakes. Wishing you well.
You can pay child support and/or alimony, or give up the house.
Do not do both.
The child is 5 years old, which means going to school – why the ‘two years’ thing, your child will be going to school from this April, or next April at the latest. Your wife can work, like any other adult.
The legal age of becoming an adult is 18, so child support should only last until the child is 18. Not 20.
I understand the overwhelming desire to get out of the situation, you’re like the animal willing to knaw off its own leg as it’s preferable to the trap. But take a step back.
The Y150,000 would likely be higher than normal unless you’re making Y15 million or more (perhaps you are, you mention you have a good job).
But it would still be on the high end, let alone 30% of your salary. There isn’t a proper mediator in the world that would recommend that amount.
If you make around Y8-10 million a year, the average amount for child support (ie, 教育費) is around Y100-120,000/month. The average one-time ‘alimony’ payment (assuming you were at fault and/or really really want a divorce) is Y1-3 million. NOT A HOUSE.
You may or may not remarry. Your wife may or may not remarry. DO NOT make a decision on the house now, based on hypotheticals.
More importantly – even if you died *right now*, your child would *still* be only entitled to get half the house. Your current wife is legally entitled to the other half.
If you remarry, your child would get…half the house, your *future* wife would be entitled to the other half. There’s no difference in the amount your child would be entitled to. The main issue is that the daughter may be forced to sell the house to pay the obligated amount to the future wife. But you can worry about how to handle that when / if you remarry. Your child will be older – maybe they will want to move by that time.
If you *don’t* remarry, your child would be legally entitled to at least half of the house – but there’s no reason you couldn’t leave everything to her, and your ex-wife gets nothing. THAT would be the way to go.
Do not sacrifice the rest of your life and happiness. That will not do your child any good either way.
If I was in your shoes, I would say ‘I will move out. House stays in my name. Here’s Y1 million yen as a one-time payment to help tide things over. I will continue making payments on the house so you don’t have to move if you don’t want to, plus some small amount (maybe Y3-50,000) each month. Let’s discuss visitation’.
The last thing you want is to suddenly have this massive child support burden, then something crazy happens – like, I don’t know, a once-a-century pandemic – and you get downsized or sick, and now you have late child support payments hanging over you.
Nothing will prevent you from giving more to your child when you’re able to, if you want to.
“the mediators told me i should pay her one third of my wage, which is almost 50% more than law stipulates.”
They are not telling you that, your wife is telling them that, to tell you. They are only there as a middle-man. You are free to stick to the payment chart that is stipulated by the court.
It can appear as though it’s the mediators telling you that, but they’re just putting your wife’s demands across. It may be possible they are not presenting it in a way as neutral as they should, but they are not deciding anything.
EDIT – If you don’t want to fully retain a lawyer, I suggest you still go and see a lawyer for one session and get them to draw up what you are legally obligated to pay/provide based on your income and assets. Then use that as a basis for your side of the mediation. Of course, you can be more lenient if it helps, but right now you seem a bit mistaken about the process and what the mediators actually do. They’re basically meat shields, so that you and your wife are not speaking to each other directly. They’re meant to remove the conflict. Any demands for anything will be coming from your wife, not them.
The very long periods between meetings are also designed to take the emotion out of the process and wear people down. Ultimately the goal for that process to get the two sides to agree on exactly what the law stipulates – no more, no less. The “more or less” aspect is entirely the decision of you and your wife. If one of you doesn’t play ball, then it goes to the next stage. And there’ll be a lot of bluff, because it’s not a good idea to go to the next stage. I doubt your wife wants to go to the next stage, because she will get less than you are currently offering if the court decides (they’ll decide what the law stipulates). Plus, both of you will have to retain lawyers, and your wife’s lawyers will get a cut of whatever she “wins”, even if it’s less.
Get a lawyer, make payments if you have to. Thank me later.
The “law” does not require you to pay anything. The courts have a matrix they use to figure out what you should pay. Don’t pay more than that. Don’t give up the house either. You need all the leverage you can get and the only leverage you have is money.
The age of majority is 18 now, not 20. The courts hate it but you should definitely try to structure things so that at least some of what you pay is dependent on visitation actually happening instead of just promised.
Be sure to structure visitation so it happens at specified times/days rather than “as agreed” or “twice a month” because lack of specificity makes it unenforceable (ie you can’t sue for damages for any particular instance of not getting visitation).
Plan for the long term:
1. As school starts to consume more of the child’s time, juku and colds and club activities will become reasons for not having visitation happen so plan around that.
2. If you would like to travel with your child, make sure whatever you agree to addresses it including applying for and control of passports and travel consents.
3. Even though Japan does not allow joint custody, if your home country allows it and your child has that country’s citizenship, you can ask for an agreement that gives you joint custody OUTSIDE OF JAPAN.
4. Be very careful about your wife being able to suddenly decide you have been abusing her and the child all this time.
5. Understand whether your home country is a signatory to The Hague Convention and if it is make a big deal about it to dissuade concerns from mediators/the courts about you abducting your child.
6. Lawyers receive almost no training in family law so you have to be careful, but a good lawyer can make a difference (or even administrative scrivener, who can’t represent you in court but can help you with paperwork, including a formalized divorce/custody agreement). Whatever money you think was saved by not at least consulting with a legal professional will not be much comfort in the long run if you get f***ed over financially or with your kid, results that will be much more expensive to try to remedy.
7. Beware of getting a kyogi rikon, particularly if you are from Canada or the US or other common law jurisdictions. The reason is because in those countries the standard proof of divorce/custody is a court judgment, so some proof of receipt of a divorce filing in Japan will cause confusion. Not only that but after the divorce you won’t be able to get a copy of your ex-wife’s Koseki, which is what she will be able to use as proof of divorce/parental authority. That’s not to say you should go to court, but something that looks like a court judgment (a court sponsored mediation protocol) may work better for you even though it is more work to get translated….
Based on what a friend did:
Don’t divorce at this time.
Rent a small 1K closer to your work and move there. Stay there Sunday night – Saturday morning. You can either 1) lie to wife and say you have to work late a lot and also will be out of town on business trips often or 2) be honest and say you will live separately.
Text or Facetime with her and child daily if possible. Just a few minutes.
Show up at the family house on Saturday morning and stay thru Sunday evening. Take your child out for breakfast or lunch or some activities. Enjoy your child. Smile and be pleasant with the wife. Say you are giving her time to do her things.
Pay house bills as before. Give her a reasonable allowance for her own stuff – assuming you do already.
Do it this way until the child graduates high school (unless you can actually come up with a divorce / formal separation earlier but it’s risky.)
This isn’t ideal but it gets you out of the bad daily living situation. Since plenty of couples are separated by work, it saves face for her and gets you out of harms way. You still have access to house and child.
I am sorry if you and your family are going through this. I do not know the reasoning behind the divorce but life is short there’s no rehearsal no going back you gotta enjoy life as you wish without hurting people but at the same time you gotta either strive for finances to be able to see or spend time with your beloved kid, talk things out again with wife share your desires and hear her desires and compromise or just escape everything and do your own. Goodluck OP
Interesting did not know that – If I own the house and would want a divorce, which laws prevent me from throwing the partner out? Just asking out of curiosity, I always thought the Japanese female spouse had the shorter end of the stick