I said to my father in law ‘my appraisal is coming up next week, so I’m gonna ask for a pay rise as I have added responsibility which I didn’t have last year’
He seemed really awkward about it and said that Japanese people don’t ask that. I couldn’t believe it, I know that I’m seeing this from a gaijin perspective, but I feel that if you don’t ask you don’t get and you’ll just suffer in silence and never know your true value always being on the same wage doing overtime to compensate.
Is the CEO of every company here just laughing and living in a golden palace somewhere? Although they are rich in the west, in Japan they must be taking it to the next level taking the piss out of their employees
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Raises do seem low and far few in between. The only silver lining is that until recently there was pretty much no inflation in Japan.
They unfortunately often give raises here based on your age, how long you’ve been on the company regardless of skill level, how many kids you have, etc.
I mostly have rise after the mendan ranking , and always for kids. I never asked but I know that my Japanese co workers do ask for rises as their discuss it after the year mendan.
Yep, got the same reaction with your father from all japanese around me, even husband. It seems like not the norm here to even discuss about raise based on performance. They will just wait for the inflation to work its wonder and wait for some time to pass until finally kaisha consider you’re too long at the same position, thus you got promoted to x級社員 and got the raise (mind you its not always “position” wise promotion)
Most of the reasons I heard is because japanese love 和/harmony so much that they don’t want to ignite a fire at work i.e being looked as nuisance for asking too much, starting an argument on their rights etc.
When they have too much work even more than their responsibilities, they either suck their teeth and abide until they break, complain subtly to the wind that their current salary can’t afford 3times meal a day, or finally when they start discussing about raise or mitigating some work to other ppl to their boss, only then to find that the answer is either 難しい, or you got transferred to other dept., or even tenkin (tho this method is considered black recently).
A lot of traditional companies have strict pay scales that correlate with age and seniority. If your father in law worked in one of these it’s understandable he would never think of asking for a raise outside the standard progression as it would never be approved.
Absolutely ask for it, if they’re receptive great, if not then it’s time to go to another company if you feel you’re worth more.
I do think most companies here only do raises once or twice a year (like April / October, for example, but that would depend on the company). If your company does this in April then now is a great time to ask because you won’t have to wait long to see their answer.
Just ask – if you don’t get it it’s another incentive to move to a gaishikei.
You also have to consider that your FIL is from a different generation as well and all advice is autobiographical, including sweeping statements about what “Japanese people do”. My FIL looks things up online then has my wife buy it off Rakuten because he doesn’t trust online shopping. Don’t worry too much about it.
While your FiL is correct in the broad sense, it’s important to note that many of the myths about Japan’s labor traditions have largely only been true for large enterprises. Lifetime employment only really became a thing well after WWII – like, mid/late 1960s. Japan was rebuilding after the war, and labor demand was through the roof. Companies tried to secure workers by basically guaranteeing employment, and the courts gradually codified this with various legal protections. To Japan’s great disadvantage, people are realizing now.
Even so, from the early/mid 1970s, the percentage of workers leaving work (離職率) has been stable at around 15%. Again – the idea of never changing jobs is only true for a relatively small proportion of manager-class workers working at larger companies. When looking at what percentage of workers have been at the same company for 1-10 years, or 10 years or more, etc, Japan isn’t really that much of an outlier at all, compared to many European / Scandanavian countries, for example.
If you were at one of those big companies, in return for essentially guaranteed employment you gave up negotating power over salary, which is thus largely determined by length of service. You are underpaid in your early years, overpaid in your later years.
You can ask for a pay rise, but they won’t give you shit unless it is defined in “The Manual”. You’ve been working 5 years for them, are 40yo and/or have kids? Then they might give you some crumbs.
CEOs in Japan make 10% of what American CEOs make.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Japanese-CEO-pay-roughly-10-that-of-US-counterparts
It’s a bit taboo in Japan because it can be seen as not being a team player. However, Japanese also understand you are a foreigner and don’t abide by their social norms. The Japanese management will certainly understand, however, will offer a lame excuse as to why you can’t make a living wage. Odds are, you are nothing more than cheap labor in they eyes of your Japanese ownership.
>He seemed really awkward about it and said that Japanese people don’t ask that.
Ah the old, “I’m Japanese and I don’t do that, therefore no Japanese person ever does it.”
It’s definitely rarer in Japan because wages are often set according to a formula and because negotiations happen more often through unions, but Japanese people are not a uniform homogenous mass.
Just for my anecdotal experience, when I asked for a raise during my performance review after I had moved up in the team and had added responsibilities, my manager told me (in many more words) to wait for 3 years and then I would (maybe) get a raise.
Just the other day one of my professors was complaining about he has had the same wage for 15 years lol
yep, they don’t.
They just accept whatever is given to them and bow.
Just do it. I ask what I need to do for a promotion every year. Been promoted 4 times in 5 years.
As for pay rise, I’ve gotten a minimum 10% pay raise each year but ours is based on performance.
Well in the 3 companies i have worked its just not possible
I think that’s becoming an outdated sentiment. In the companies I’ve worked for with I’ve seen and hearing from acquaintances in adjacent positions/companies people will ask.
Actually getting one?? That’s a completely different story. But I think that’s also why you see more turnover in recent years, as younger workers are more willing to jump around to get better salaries or contracts.
The short answer will always be “it depends”. If you work in a foreign firm in Japan it’s business as usual. If you don’t ask you likely won’t get.
That same d, my first job here was almost 30 years ago at a Japanese prep school for ryugaku students. I had established value in my role and I asked for a big bump and got it.
If you want more money, do more overtime.