When I read about Joyo Kanji to me it definitely seemed like a “I should learn this and it seems essential” sort of feel, so after you’ve learned Joyo Kanji is that enough? You could read most/all literature and live in Japan without issue? Or is there like another list of kanji that should be learned after Joyo Kanji?
Or is there kanji that is really frequently used but not in the Joyo Kanji list so you’d need to learn those.
Sorry for the list of questions, just been wondering about it and wanted to ask people which probably know the technical stuff.
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Yes, there’s **a lot** of kanji outside of the joyo kanji set. The full kanken1 set of kanji is around 6000 or so, however most native speakers really “only” know about 3000-4000 kanji (and “know” means they probably can recognize a few words, it’s hard to say what “knowing” a kanji means).
There’s a few joyo kanji that are super uncommon and not very useful to know (like 朕 or 璽) and there’s some non-joyo kanji that are incredibly common.
Honestly I wouldn’t worry too much, knowing all joyo kanji already puts you in a good spot and you **will** find many words that use non-joyo kanji as you keep reading and consuming natural Japanese. When you do, just look them up in a dictionary (chances are they will often have furigana too) and try to learn/remember them then.
Yes, there are more kanji to learn aside from the 常用漢字. Inclusion of the 人名用漢字 puts the count at over 2600. Unless you read only materials that are **not allowed** to use non-常用漢字 (i.e., legal documents), then learning a couple hundred more will happen naturally as you read. All forms of creative writing including manga, light novels, normal novels, and even video games, are not obliged to go easy and use only 常用漢字, so they can and will use rarer ones as they see fit. Certain publishers will have some stipulations about furigana usage based on their target demographics, at least.
The post-常用漢字 list isn’t limited to 人名用漢字 either. Depending on the stuff that you read, there will be unique groups of kanji to learn. For example, literature with sexual content will make you familiar with kanji pertaining to anatomy. A book or two l on sushi might make you familiar with fish.
Oh, and the highest level of the 漢字検定 puts the numbers closer to about 6000.
As for common ones to know, [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LearnJapanese/comments/9txb89/most_common_non_joyo_kanji/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) has some answers.
Lots and lots of Kanji outside the Joyo are in literature – Not counting those used in names there is another 600-700 which cover common objects, animals (fish, bugs.. etc) or other actions that you will come to know.
There are many characters outside the jouyou list that incredibly common (嘘 is insanely common but is not on the list) while there are plenty of characters on the list which are very rarely used (朕). There are also characters where the version in the jouyou list is not actually commonly used while another version is the one actually used instead (剥く and 剝く, as well as 叱る and 𠮟る — in both cases the latter is jouyou but is almost never used while the former is non-jouyou and is widely used). In addition, there are many words in the jinmeiyou list which are absolutely commonly used in regular words (more commonly than some jouyou characters). Also many very common animal names (such as 鮪、鮭、鯖、鰤 if you’re just considering fish) are not included on any of the lists but are kind of important depending on what you plan on doing with Japanese.
Ultimately the lists are far from perfect and were designed for a particular purpose (standardising the language and making sure there was a uniform curriculum in schools across Japan) and not for the benefit of L2 learners.
While tracking the number of characters you know by grade level is an interesting metric to track your progress (and is one I look at from time to time), you shouldn’t focus on learning the characters on the list to completion — simply learn vocabulary when you run across it and you will naturally expand the list of characters you know. Ultimately it’s most important to know as many words as possible, and knowing characters comes as a result of that.
Most estimates state that native Japanese speakers know about 3000-4000 kanji passively. The highest level of the kanken (kanji knowledge test for native speakers) includes more than 6000 characters.
There are dozens of thousands of kanjis. You probably will never know all of them. And shouldn’t care too much either.
When I talk to Japanese natives, the more educated ones, i.e. with a University degree, claim to be able to read about 6000 kanjis and write 2000, while the less educated ones claim to read about 3000 and write 1000.
So as long as you are in between these numbers, you should be good with the Kanji part and consider yourself literate enough to actually start learning Japanese.
誰 wasn’t a Jouyou kanji until 2010 and it’s everywhere. The 阪 in 大阪 (Osaka) wasn’t even Jouyou until 2010 either. So yes, you should basically get used to having to learn non-Jouyou kanji.
There are a couple hundred joyo kanji I haven’t yet come across and there’s over a thousand non-joyo kanji I have and have learned. Some joyo kanji are exceedingly rare, some non-joyo are relatively common.
It really doesn’t matter. The most important thing is to stop thinking about kanji. If I see a new word, I look it up, I don’t think “fuck, I didn’t know this kanji, that’s another one to learn.” Nor do I think “I *still* have 1374 to learn (but then I’ll never see a new one again)”. You will be looking up words with kanji you don’t know for years, there’s no definite cut off point, it just becomes exceedingly rare to see new ones.
There’s the list of kanjis that are commonly used alongside 常用漢字. I recommend you to check 表外漢字表 which includes 1000 kanjis.
Don’t worry too much on joyo or not joyo. There are number of joyo you will never see and some not joyo you ll see often. 95+% of daily used kanjis are joyo. Read japanese (a lot) and it will come. Kanjis are far from being the most difficult part to learn japanese (if you come from european language).
To answer on the kanji specific topic you can have list of kanjis per frequency here https://gallarotti.github.io/assets/2013/01/kanji.pdf then you can compare with joyo list here [http://www.natubunko.net/mame/kotoba05-2010.html](http://www.natubunko.net/mame/kotoba05-2010.html).
The joyo/non joyo kanji distinction is not nearly as relevant as you might’ve been led to believe. I mean I was watching a video from a native person a few minutes ago and even they got tripped up by the Kanji in the screen more than a few times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatuoPjD_zY
https://youtu.be/Ml_ZOA8br48?t=2410
TL;DR: Don’t worry about it, some of this stuff is difficult even for natives. It literally doesn’t matter if a kanji is joyo/non joyo, just learn as you read
ya there are a lot you will see, yesterday I saw 雫 which probably isn’t that rare but is じんめいようかんじ
Names, names the wonderful fruit.
濱口，廣口，澤口 very common last names that all use the old verions of kanji you already know 浜口，広口，沢口
Until the last round of Joyo Reform, there were Prefecture names that were not in the Joyo List 岐阜県, 栃木県，愛媛県
All the names built from and around the non-simplified form of dragon and box 瀧 /滝，引き籠もり・引き篭もり etc.
Place name stuff obviously. If i remember correctly 井 isn’t joyo kanji but it’s in a lot of place names so it’s one of the first kanjis I learnt.