I was hired as a Board Member for a manufacturer as the only non-Japanese under the brief to support Business Development and help guide the company to more “global” company in the future.
I have oversight on New Business Acquisition and Sales, so have a team that I’ve tasked with supporting our overseas business partners (who account for most of our business).
We had an extremely successful COVID period, as our products were essential for testing and research, but the past 6 months have been rough with our partners and end-users hoarding product so orders are dramatically low.
This has lead to some strange decisions, including recently being told that this team will now need to come in to work 2 Saturdays out of the month for “internal meetings”, as this is the same requirement for factory staff. When the factory is on their monthly shutdown week, we also need to come in a few days to support these overseas partners but this is seen as “non-essential” to the factory guys.
The CEO, a 76 year old man, has decreed that Saturday work is perfectly acceptable, despite my comments that we are going to struggle to hire the next generation of employees who value their weekends and expect a level of flexibility.
The CEO has also, unsurprisingly, decided that remote work is now off the table post-COVID, despite my comments that in a sales role this is standard practice for most other companies these days.
Basically, I fear this whole “everyone needs to be treated the same” in a factory with a sales division is just extremely limiting and my voice as a Board Member is being completely ignored.
What I want to know from the good people of Reddit is:
WOULD YOU WORK AN OFFICE JOB KNOWING THAT YOU’LL NEED TO WORK 2 OF YOUR SATURDAYS IN A MONTH AND THERES NO REMOTE WORKING?
AND TO ANSWER THE INEVITABLE QUESTION, IMAGINE YOU GET PAID ¥5,000,000 A YEAR + ¥1,000,000 BONUS
EDIT: JUST TO ADD THAT THE ABOVE JOB IS RELATED TO MY TEAM. A MANAGER / JUNIOR MANAGEMENT ROLE.
ALTHOUGH I MAY BE QUITTING MY JOB AS A DIRECTOR, WHICH PAYS BETTER, OVER THE FUTURE OF MY TEAMS DAYS OFF.
SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION.
49 comments
Fuck no. I occasionally work on Saturday but I never go over 40 hours in a week. If I’m working Saturday I’m off on a weekday. The joy of being the only employee in this country is I never have to see the rest of those assholes in person.
Sounds like a hassle for 6M
So many titles and responsibilities for such a shitty pay
For 6M, I could do the occasional Saturday but only if the job was fully remote. This is coming from someone who’s a workaholic and has no family by the way. There’s no way in hell I’d be working that much for any amount of money if it meant losing out on precious time with my kids.
EDIT: Another requirement would be these “meetings” actually being productive and not just a bunch of old guys sitting around sucking teeth and talking random crap.
I would just not apply to such a company.
Work on Saturdays for internal meetings is a hard pass for me.
My wife does, and she is paid even less. Currently looking for new job at the moment but those companies do exist. Especially older manufacturing companies.
Nope.
I went through a long period of working one or two weekend days per month, but that was from home and compensated either with extra money or time off, and overall for much better pay than mentioned here.
The long answer is no!
Board member, as in an outside director who only has to attend a few occasional meetings?
For 6 mil that’s not too bad.
If it’s a full-time job, run as fast as you can.
For a management role in manufacturing, especially when you have shop floor operating weekends as well we’re usually working 24/7 anyway but then again it’s going for 15M+ range for sure. For a 6? As others have mentioned it’s a hassle 😡
I’m surprised people are pooh-poohing 6m when I often read on this board people seem to be earning half that doing eikaiwa stuff.
I will never work again in a job where I can’t work from home occasionally. Working on weekends, in some exceptional circumstances is acceptable, as long as I’m paid overtime for it. Doing it on a regular basis for no real reason is unacceptable.
But then, I’m not in sales, I’m in IT, and almost everything I do can be done remotely.
Lol developed countries are trying to switch to 4-day work week and these ojisans are still convinced that the more you work, the more gets done.
My (japanese) husband worked for 17 years for a company that seems mirrored with yours.
Over the years, the quality of worker had gone down— Better quality candidates chose to work elsewhere with better pay/hours, and so they were left with the “scraps” who needed constant re-training in not only work, but telephone/email professionalism. It made being a successful company very difficult, and long-time workers like my husband began quitting in droves.
So, your boss can keep the Saturday requirement, for example, and he’ll still get applicants, but he may notice that production goes down and complaints go up.
Oh hell no. Just the whole attitude is a turn off. And everyone knows manufacturing pays lousy wages in part because margins are thin relative to other types of businesses.
Although I wouldn’t do it for pretty much any salary, I definitely wouldn’t under 10M.
As someone who’s already working Saturday/Sunday and even on holidays, I wouldn’t mind as long as I get a weekday off in exchange.
Now if you meant that I’ll need to work an *extra* two Saturdays per month…well, for 6M, I still might.
It also depends on the role/job description and other benefits in addition to pay.
Working on Saturday is not unusual in Japan. The pre-covid work schedule the CEO wants the company to go back to was pretty standard before the pandemic. I expect a lot of other Japanese companies will do the same thing once the covid protocols are rescinded.
Depends, is the 6m just the base and goes up? Is it a full extra day on Saturday?
Generally, big no. I value my free time. But if it was worth it… maybe. I know people that would definitely take that offer though. Still, not good
> WOULD YOU WORK AN OFFICE JOB KNOWING THAT YOU’LL NEED TO WORK 2 OF YOUR SATURDAYS IN A MONTH AND THERES NO REMOTE WORKING?
> AND TO ANSWER THE INEVITABLE QUESTION, IMAGINE YOU GET PAID ¥5,000,000 A YEAR + ¥1,000,000 BONUS
I make around 3x the listed salary+bonus and would not agree to work half my Saturdays without additional compensation or time off in lieu. No remote work would be an absolute dealbreaker.
I’m surprised how working extra is the solution to slowdown in sales. If anything you’d want to slow down manufacturing. It seems like a great way to throw money down the drain.
Assuming you are paying employees for their time?
Time to find a replacement for that 76 year old geezer.
If we go back in time to when I was making 4m, I still wouldn’t take that.
Nowadays, I wouldn’t take that even for 30m. Your CEO will never get top talent ever again, and I think you know that.
Life is too short for that kind of slave grind. Wouldn’t put up with it, but do what you have to do.
The first company I worked for was similar, Saturday work if there was a midweek holiday. This was to make up for lost productivity as the HQ used to have a manufacturing section (that was moved to Okayama eventually).
I only lasted two years, I just couldn’t hack the weekend work, staff sitting around doing nothing till 8pm, daily radio taisyo as well as endless meetings.
15 years forward, the company still exists but is a shell of a it’s former self. Impossible to attract talented staff and kind of in a downward spiral.
Anyhow…if you cannot effect change, even in your director level position, I think it’s time to look elsewhere.
Straight up nope – I wouldn’t even apply. Time off to rest/recharge and do stuff I enjoy is more important.
I wouldn’t, unless I really needed the money. Many Japanese people do work jobs like that for less pay than that, so *shrug*
If your voice on the board represents a majority you should theoretically be able to override the CEO. The reality is he doesn’t care what any one who disagrees with him says. You will lose this argument with him, full stop.
Put up with it and do the best you can, or look for an exit. This company will NOT change until the CEO dies (if he’s 76 and hasn’t retired yet, he won’t.)
And just in case you think I’m being overly dramatic, your case is far from unique. It’s common enough.
So seems like you’re asking about working as someone on your team, not your role.
Y6 million is more than the national average, with what I assume to be good job security. Seems reasonable.
But it there are other companies that pay the same without weekend work, then you’ll lose employees to those companies, and the problem will solve itself.
Re: Your position as Board Member – there are some battles you can’t / won’t win overnight. You can decide this is a hill to die on, or you can play the long game. Early in my career I was more interested in being right than being successful.
I’m a hell of a lot more successful *now.*
I would rather slam my dick in a car door.
I’d take it for that salary but that’s just me.
I’m working for 3,000,000 with no remote work (although I think I could have at least one or two days of remote work every second week when i have just paperwork to do).
But working on weekends, hell no. Not even for the bigger salary.
Even my work phone is largely ignored on weekends as it’s “My day off” and I am not an essential worker but an Engineer.
For the BDM roles – unless there’s a clear objective/target for the weekend work then it would be a hard pass from me.
If there’s a finite amount of Saturday workshops and the task is to develop say a new sales strategy or work through a marketing plan then sure, I’m all for it.
If it’s just to appease the labourers and we’ll all be “finding work to do” then I’d definitely start looking for work elsewhere.
BDMs traditionally give up so much of their personal time as it is, no need to unnecessarily tax them further. Who would they be talking to on a weekend anyway? No customer is going to be reachable.
Sounds like a tough position for a sane person to be in. Good luck trying to coach the CEO. Sounds like he’s a big part of the problem…
Very typical old school Japanese CEO mentality. Been there, done that.
And no, I didn’t stay after my objections and recommendations were ignored, to the detriment of business. And it only got worse.
You’re wise to leave as soon as possible.
So they are paying 5M+1M base, plus a lot of hours of overwork at 1.5x, right? Like the Japanese law indicates? Or are they doing it illegally on top of it?
BTW for comparison it’d be better to compare it to a similar role but with no weekend work, not an arbitrary salary number. Is that salary even higher than usual for the role/industry/experience? Or normal? Or below market? That’d be a lot more useful to know to be able to compare/tell. But yeah looks like a s**tshow.
CEO should retire and let a younger generation move the company forward. If he cant see that, tell him to look at Akio Toyoda.
I would never ever work a job that expected more than 5 days a week,
EVER.
I would be okay if it weren’t guaranteed 2 Saturdays a month. 2 Saturdays a month on a bad month, maybe with an average of 0.5 Saturdays a month would be totally livable for 6m, except that you said this is management. If I have to be responsible for other idiots AND come in on Saturday I’m going to need a lot more. I’ve done remote and I don’t really care either way so that’s not a factor for me.
Well it sort of depends. I work at my office two Saturdays a month. After considering that I don’t do much on Saturday mornings/afternoons anyway, it didn’t bother me too much. Most of the time they let me go home early anyway because it’s the weekend.
And if I had a particular Saturday where I wanted to do something, I just call in sick or just straight tell them I can’t come in. 2 Saturdays a month isn’t that bad if you don’t hate your work is what I’m trying to say I guess.
On a side note, the 5 mil isn’t worth permanently losing Saturdays but that bonus is pretty beefy.
unless they pay double, i’m off
Can I just say a big thank you to this community.
This has been a thoroughly engaging chat with mixed opinions.
I particularly liked the guy who wanted to slam his dick in a car door 👍
Absolutely not lol. I make much more than that now working only 4 weekend days a year with unlimited remote work.
Yeah, count me in
Maybe I’m just picky, but I just wouldn’t work for a boss or CEO that can’t make data driven decisions or justify their actions. To me that’s frankly worse than Saturday work or no remote, as you have no idea what else may change or if it gets worse..if anything if there was a very passionate and understanding CEO who could somehow justify those two points I could potentially consider Saturday work/no remote.
Nope! I can make 4m and have tons of free time. Have kids, would never work because of the hours.
It is strange when some companies in Europe are trying to adopt a 4 day week; folks in Asia are trying to do the exact opposite.
Nope, I would not.
And if, the money was so good; then i fear people will probably join for money with no commensurate commitment.
on site what amounts to 5.5 days a week? i wouldnt even do it for 12M a year lmao
I mean, it really comes down to whether a potential applicant might have better options elsewhere. To which the answer is: in a lot of cases, yes. There’s plenty of jobs in the 5-6M range where remote or at least hybrid work is standard, and saturdays are off.
You will likely always find someone desperate enough to apply for the job, however. But with these “perks” you’re going to be a lot less likely to retain your employees in the long term, plus, I mean, you typically don’t want to hire those who are the most desperate, but those who are the most qualified.
Honestly working in your company is a shitty position to be in. BUT people do anything for money man.
You are asking in Japan reddit where most foreigners here make much more than 6M. To most people here, the salary is very small.
I used to get paid lower and used to be in a situation much worse than this. You should go ask in a forum with Japanese salary men. Most would take the job especially the young and middle aged folks as 6M is a very good mid-late career pay for a average salary man.
I still remember that 45 year olds in my previous job (traditional Japanese company), used to get promoted to the prestigious position of leader or manager and get paid 8M for it.
I am not justifying the working conditions in your company, but just saying that it’s not REALLY TERRIBLE.
I took a big salary bump at a hustle culture company.
I just got off from work and am too tired to even read your entire post.
So no, I would not take the offer because Saturdays are really nice to have off and it probably doesn’t stop there. If they don’t appreciate your weekends, they probably have the same attitude about overtime.
So unless you are okay with hustle culture & think you could learn a lot, I would advise against it.
My wifes family owns a large steel factory that makes tons of stuff from the “Blue Water Gates” to “man hole covers” and then they have a crane product line, water filtration system for disasters, etc. I think they have just over 22k staff at 7 factories. My wife refuses to work at this family company because she has to work late and on Saturdays. My wifes Brother runs the company and really made a ton of improvements since “father” died about 14 yrs ago. My wifes Sister and Mom also work at the factory. The sales guys don’t make commissions and only work for about the equivalent to $2500 a month. My jaw drops every time I hear about their salaries.
Salaries are the biggest issue.
One of the other big issues is everything is managed from a traditional Japanese point of view. My western brain even after 15+ yrs still gets scrambled when I get into traditional Japanese companies.
Side note: If you are entrepreneur minded and are married to a Japanese you can easily get bank loans. I am on to my 4th company and I am able to get 4-8 yr equipment loans with less than 2% interest, cash loans are more around the 1% rate where as business credit cards are around 7%. Seems like with all the work your doing for this sales team you could just start your own company.