Hi everyone – we were supposed to travel to Japan this month, which of course has been put on hold. We’ve reschedule for next November for about 2.5 weeks (Nov 9 – Nov 30). We are excited to go koyo spotting.
This is our second time in Japan with our last 3 week trip hitting the main spots of Tokyo – Kyoto – Hiroshima – Osaka – Nara – Mt. Koya. The highlights.
Our most favorite part of our first trip was the detour we took to hike from Magome to Tsumago, where we stayed the night in a traditional ryokan. We love big city fun, but found our most memorable moments to be the ones where we were able to escape the crowds… wandering in Kyoto to find nearly empty temples, Tsumago, randomly wandering into the quiet Yanaka neighborhood in Tokyo.
I am asking for advice for experiences in this vein along our proposed route, which is roughly the following:
Tokyo – Matsumoto – Takayama – Kanazawa – Osaka – Kyoto – Tokyo.
We are considering Kamikochi near Matsumoto, Fukui near Kanazawa, and Uji + Kameoka near Kyoto.
I understand Hakone/Mt. Fuji is between Kyoto and Tokyo, but honestly it seems like a major hassle to get to, I think the leaves will be mostly past peak, and the general things I have read about Hakone turn me off. Maybe Fuji Five Lakes is a better call, but not sure its worth the stopover for us.
Thanks for any advice or suggestions you may have!
17 comments
Personally I liked Fuji Five Lakes, but it’s not well connected: you can get to Fujikawaguchiko by train from Tokyo with a few stops, but you’ll have to use the local tourism buses (not sure if they ride around that time of the year) or a rental car to get around. If you’re taking the train you’ll have to go back the way you came most likely (going from Fujikawaguchiko to anywhere by train is fastest using the Shinkansen to Tokyo and then going to your destination rather than going directly via slower trains).
I went to Hakone but was a bit underwhelmed. It is very rural, not much to do except stay at your Ryokan and go hiking. There’s no city or even village to speak of, so not a lot of amenities.
Uji I would strongly recommend, I went there for one day and felt I could have used a bit more time to take in the area. The Uji City hall organizes really cheap tea ceremonies for you to attend, which I would strongly recommend.
Have you done Kamakura? It’s a little bit crowded at times, but I found it delightful, and there’s some nice nature around the city. It feels like a small Kyoto, at the beach, and you can easily go to Enoshima and the areas around there.
Feel free to ask more details depending on your methods of transport and whether you’d rather see nature or sleepy villages/out of the way cities.
Uji is a definitive yes, but it is packed with tourists, too. Fukui has an interesting coastline to check out. I also can recommend hiking up Koya, few people seem to do that.
Hakone is not much of a hassle to do between Kyoto and Tokyo, you only have to take the Shinkansen up to Odawara, then local train and bus around Hakone. I do not know what turn you off, but I personally like it.
Kawaguchiko and five like area is also geographically between the two, but much more hassle to get to. You have two main options, stop at Mishima station than take a long bus to Kawaguchiko, or go all the way to Tokyo. You might prefer to do it as a day trip from Tokyo, or even on the way to Matsumoto, as it would be a detour on the Chuo line. This is also absolutely not off the beaten path, but if you want a chance on a nice view of Mount Fuji and a onsen yes, it’s a nice stop.
On the way to Matsumoto, you can also stop by Kofu in Yamanashi, I just passed by in the train and I am interested to stop, this is absolutely an area where foreigners do not stop to.
Around Matsumoto, there is Azumino, quiet place known for it’s big wasabi farm, so this is a quiet walk in the countryside and across the fields to reach the farm.
Kamikochi or Hirayu onsen is a good stop between Matsumoto and Takayama, as in any case the bus across the alps in probably the best option between the two city.
Next will be the obvious not out of the beaten path, but Shirakawa-go is a natural stop between Takayama and Kanazawa. Or if you want to be original, check if there is something interesting in Toyama.
In Kyoto, Uji is interesting, you can also match it with Fushimi Sake district, close to Chushojima station.
If you really want to go to a place where people do not go, really nice temples with just a few people, then check south of Nara prefecture. There is a old historic neighborhood in Kashihara, Asuka was the capital before Nara, so there is historic location and history museum. If you can spend a couple days in the area, at least 2-3, I would recommend to check the Nara-Yamato pilgrimage ([check this article](https://en.japantravel.com/nara/nara-yamato-pilgrimage/56936)), even if you do not visit them all, they are nice temples. Actually, there is a Kintetsu 2 day pass for train/bus in this area, or 5 days pass that also include Ise and Nagoya. I could recommend a really nice minshuku close to Muro-ji, that is if you are able to speak Japanese or can use a device to translate as the people there do not speak English, food was good and owner really nice. It’s just a bit tricky go get there as there is only a bus with limited schedule, so you have to plan accordingly if you go.
Kamikochi is gorgeous. Matsumoto and the surrounding area are fantastic with many wonderful onsen. That would be my choice
I liked Hakone well enough but yeah I don’t think it’s a must. Kinosaki Onsen was a wonderful spot we stayed at for two nights on our last trip, it’s about 2 hours by train north-west of Kyoto.
The town has seven public baths that are all within walkable distance, most of the accommodations will give you an all-day pass to all of them (and if not I think it’s only like 1000 yen or something). The tourist board for the town is super friendly in helping foreigners. All public baths are tattoo-friendly. I’m planning to go again on our next trip.
We stayed a night in Kanazawa and I can’t say that was really worth our time – I preferred our time in Hakone. Kanazawa has the garden which is pretty, but the modern art museum was underwhelming. I recommend staying two nights in Takayama, there’s lots to do. Matsumoto was lovely as well.
I second people’s suggestions of Kamakura as a nice long day trip. I also enjoyed going up to Nikko and Sendai Matsushima on previous trips but those are a bit long (2-3 hours each way).
Not related exactly to your ask but we saw amazing fall colors in Kyoto in Daigoji November 19th of last year. That temple is a bit out of the way (about an hour bus ride from city center + 10 minute walk), but it has wonderful night illuminations and it was absolutely magical.
Probably not what you had in mind, but rent a car in Kanazawa and head up the Noto Peninsula for a few days. Quiet, rural and beautiful as hell. Lots of great ryokans, regional crafts, killer local seafood and sake, and nothing to do but enjoy it.
For off the tourist trail places near Kyoto, consider looking at Shiga prefecture. Otsu is a short train ride away from Kyoto Station and has quite a lot of history. Places like Miidera Templa (one of the largest in the country), Enryakuji, Omi Jingu shrine, Hiezan-Sakamoto. There is also Hikone which has Hikone Castle and Taga Taisha shrine (this is a bit more difficult to get to, but worth it for the secluded shrine feeling). Higashi-Omi has Eigenji Temple which is beautiful when the autumn leaves are showing, which might be when you visit Japan. Plus lots of hiking opportunities if you’re interested in that.
With your route:
1. Tokyo – Matsumoto: if you are looking for smaller crowds, perhaps Lake Suwa area (with Suwa-taisha might be more suitable than Mt. Fuji).
2. Matsumoto – Takayama: Kamikochi is usually closing for the season on November 15th and may or may not be crowded at this time. It’s also expensive as hell and it may really make more sense to stay in Hirayu Onsen or in one of the onsen villages/town below Shin-Hotaka Ropeway.
3. Kanazawa-Osaka: while Fukui may seem a good hub for visiting Eihei-ji, Maruoka Castle or Tojinbo – staying there does not make much sense; if you are looking for nicer evening – commuting from Kanazawa makes some sense considering frequency of Thunderbird/Shirasagi; if you are looking for onsen than Kaga Onsen or Awara Onsen might be more up your alley. If you liked temple stay at Mt. Koya, it is possible to stay at Eihei-ji.
4. Uji is fairly popular and crowded spot (Byodo-in, teahouses, tea shops) and Kameoka is crowded as well due to popularity of Sagano Scenic Railway and the whole area during autumn foliage season.
5. Kyoto – Tokyo: instead of looking to Hakone or Mt. Fuji, you should may be consider Shuzenji (train access via Mishima) or somewhere along Izukyu Railway (Kawazu and Seven Waterfall, Jogasaki Coast, access via Atami).
Just chiming in to say that I loved my short time in Hakone. It was worth the small inconvenience of getting there.
If you like backpacking/trekking Kamikochi is the spot. Really cool hut system setup so you don’t need to back tents or sleeping bags. Reservations should be made ahead of time.
If you don’t plan on doing overnights up at the huts, still some cool trails to checkout for the day before coming back to Kamikochi for the night.
If you want some more detailed info, let me know!
For Kyoto – Uji is nice but still fairly crowded. Hikone & Omi Hachiman would be quieter options. I haven’t been to Hikone but found Omi Hachiman to be a lovely half day. You could make a detour and go to Ishiyama-dera Temple on the way, I went around 9am in the morning and it was empty.
For Kanazawa – Fukui is a good option but I found that Kanazawa wasn’t too crowded when you compare it to say Kyoto. It’s a great town to just walk around and explore so I would suggest giving yourself a couple of days there.
Also if you are thinking of going to Shirakawago then consider going to Gokayama instead as it is a lot less crowded.
Kamikochi is gorgeous with the turning leaves if you get there at the right time and if you can get a bus into it. They limit the number of buses that go in and out at all times. You can not drive in and no trains. The problem comes when you go during busy times like Fall and Summer vacation.
I live in Togakushi near Nagano city. If you are looking for something off the beaten foreign track, try Togakushi. Okusha is one of my favorite places in all of Japan. Sadly most tourists find it when they stay at the local campground and just walk over to it. Not knowing the name they quickly forget about it. At that time of the year the backpackers are gone and the campgrounds are mostly closed. You can take a bus straight from the Shinkansen station. I love it so much that if you DM me I will come pick you up if you want.
From Nagano station you can go to Zenkoji as well. If you are interested in Temples. The station mall was remodeled about 3 years ago making it easier now.
If you are going to be in Kyoto on the 21st try the Toji Market about 15 minutes walk from Kyoto Station. If gives you a chance to see the temple grounds without paying. A little bit tourist like but the locals also shop there.
I liked Hakone when I went but I wouldn’t necessarily go back right away. I stayed in Odawara and did the entire loop for a day trip, the Hakone Tozan line is very pretty and the cable car and ropeway are very nice as well. You do you, wouldn’t say I have strong feelings, but if it doesn’t sound nice to you then skip.
Thats a strange route. I’d do this:
1. Tokyo – Kawagoe + shibamata for the old town vibe
2. Nagano via the hokuriku shinkansen. Snow Monkey park, kamikochi and matsumoto can be optional day trips. Winter can be harsh in Nagano so you may want to skip kamikochi.
3. Kanazawa
4. Kyoto – Kurama to Kibune hike
5. Osaka – recharge in the city before doing more country
6. Circle down the wakayama pennisula to kii katsura. Stay at one of the island onsen hotels just off the coast. Visit Nachi Falls
7. Ise
8. Nagoya to Takayama then back to Nagoya after you finish
9. kamakura + enoshima island if you have time otherwise just go from nagoya to Tokyo.
10.Tokyo
You could also revere the city order too. Tokyo to Nagoya – Takayama – Ise – nachi falls- Osaka- kyoto-kanazawa- nagano- tokyo but i prefer first order.
I did (almost) your exact route earlier this year:
Tokyo > Nagano > Hakuba > Matsumoto > Takayama > Shirakawago > Kanazawa > Fuji > Shizuoka > Osaka > Kyoto > Uji > Osaka
We hired a car for the Kanazawa > Fuji > Shizuoka leg but i think it would’ve been easier driving from Matsumoto to Osaka. Other than some narrow roads, driving and being able to stop at roadhouses in the way was really fun!
If you like Ryokans, there are a number of them north west of Nagano up around Obuse. We stayed at one near Jigokudani Monkey park called Senjukaku. But there is a [whole onsen town around Yudanaka Station as well.](https://blog.gaijinpot.com/yudanaka-onsen/)
Would definitely recommend seeing the Gassho style houses around the Takayama location if you can, it was one of the more picturesque / natural locations in my whole trip.
Uji was also great, recommend visiting to learn about the tea ceremony. I went to [Takumi-no Yakata](https://maps.app.goo.gl/3MyZVBX7BiNVmayz5) where they taught us how to prepare and drink matcha and sencha by a sweet lady who was learning English and trying her best to teach us. I was there right before flights started to yet impacted so there were practically no other tourists do it was quite nice.
If you do (or anyone else here) visits Fuji, there’s a small “Midnight Diner”-esque oden shop named [“おでんやなべちゃん”](https://maps.app.goo.gl/MLvtva9wZwesWD9V9). It’s small, a bit cramped but the food is great and the master there is really friendly guy trying to learn some English. **If anyone does drop by, please tell him that his customers from Australia referred you and that we say Hi.**
In 2013 I did almost the same route as you, and also did Hakone. You can easily put Hakone as a daytrip fro Tokyo, before you leave to Matsumoto. I really enjoyed it but it’s not really off the beaten path, Hakone is a very touristic area.
You can get a special ticket (Hakone Free Pass) which covers all transport in Hakone as well as a price reduction on the trip from/to Shinjuku station.
My daytrip looked something like this:
– ExpressTrain from Shinjuku to Hakone-Yumoto (if you want to take advantage of the hakone free pass).
– Hakone Tozan railway towards Gora
– At Chokokunomori there’s a open air museum with statues and a picasso gallery
– From Gora take the cable car to Sounzan station
– Then the Hakone Ropeway to Owakudani, and on to Togendai station on Lake Ashi.
– Cruise on the lake to Hakone-machi or Moto-Hakone
– (optional) walk from hakone-machi to moto-hakone
– Bus from MotoHakone to Hakone-Yumoto and train back to Tokyo
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5210.html
Maybe come up to Tohoku sometime?
We’ve got monkeys in onsens, mountain gods that steal away bad children and lazy wives, and lots of alcohol.