Today was supposed to be my day of doing nothing to recharge for the rest of the week since Jhusband comes home quite late on weekdays leaving me pretty much on my own with a toddler until the weekend. We already agreed upon our respective re-charge days, mine Saturday and his Sunday, but then he asks me to go grocery shopping as soon as I wake up and I just say I’m too tired to go and I thought today was my agreed upon day to chill.
My “I’m too tired” reply started a big fight. He stated I’ve been saying it a lot lately and his reply was that I shouldn’t be saying this at all and how this phrase is the thing he hates the most. He made it seem that saying “I’m tired” is a put off in our marriage and that typically Jwives don’t do this. I honestly can’t tell if this is a cultural thing or not.
He’s also made comments about how my voice sounds angry and mean when I talk and that I need to “be more cheerful when greeting him when he gets home.” Which feels like some sort of expectation he had for me that I was unaware of until now. My voice is just my voice. In English maybe it sounds more harsh than when I speak in Japanese but like it’s still me.
Normally we have been good but lately I’m so tired by the weekend, I’m not even able to function. I’m having trouble understanding the possible cultural nuances here, if there are any. Or if this is strictly just an us problem. Suggestions and advice happily welcomed.
19 comments
Having separate recharge days on the two only days without work seems like a bad call; and that’s assuming recharge days make sense at all, especially when the definition used is to do quite literally nothing at all.
Seems like you’d be better off looking at the source and eliminating whatever causes you to be so tired.
Not touching the interpersonal stuff.
It kind of sounds like a compatibility issue to me. You should be relating to each other as people and not as Jhusband and Gwife.
I feel like a big part of japanese culture is “gaman” and people don’t usually talk about their issues that much, even in relationships which I don’t think is very healthy. Communicate with your husband, work through it. International marriages can be difficult since you have different perspectives on nearly everything.
Maybe your husband can help out more so that you’re not tired.
I feel like the things he may say could be cultural (you should be more cheerful when greeting me) but the actual issues may be a you guys thing.
My jwife has a sharp tone and way that she says things sometimes, and it can really, really strike a nerve. Like I’m instantly pissed off over an offhand comment, even if what she said wasn’t too big of a deal. She may or may not apologize right away or at all, sometimes, but regardless those tend to be times where something has built up that is irking her.
I say all that to say, try communicating a little more. Instead of just “I’m tired” explain what made you so tired. If he is responsive and/or willing maybe suggest how he could tag in to give you some relief on whatever is making you tired. I wfh so I can see with my own eyes daily how hard it is to handle a toddler (10 month old here) and if I wasn’t around I probably wouldnt be able to be so receptive to how quickly that can drain a person.
My jwife says she’s tired all the time, so he’s wrong on that part 🙂
My MIL used to lose it if I or DH said, ‘I’m tired’. I still have no idea why but it used to tick her off royally. Don’t look so tired!’ ‘You’re tired!? I’m tired!’ It was tantrum time. I’m sorry I can’t give you a why for it, but I’ve experienced it, and have heard others recount similar experiences.
Mine keeps nagging me to be cheerful and greet with a smile too. But spending a day at Jcompany only makes me wish I’d die already so it’s hard to be cheerful. I don’t think I’d be cheerful and smile even if it was my birthday and I won the lottery on the same day..
Sounds like a cocktail of cultural differences, fatigue, pent up grievances and a sprinkle of ‘non-appreciation of child care’.
The first 3 might be from both of you, based on tone or things said in the relationship leading up to this etc but the last is probably a comment from a man who thinks a stay at home mom isn’t exhausting.
Either way this will take multiple bouts of communication. If you have the emotional stamina to lead the conversation it might be best to start of simple with equal understanding of the fatigue and grievances you both maybe feeling. If you don’t have that stamina, invest in suitors whiskey /jk
It sounds like you’re both tired (assuming that he is working late on weekdays), and that’s especially common when you have a toddler, regardless of the culture.
Japanese wives and husbands most certainly do say that they are tired, but I think that people often forget that they’re not the only one who is tired.
It shouldn’t be a competition about who is more tired, but it always seems to turn into one…
Rather than having recharge days, perhaps it would be more realistic to take turns doing specific things that reduce each other’s exhaustion. When you have a toddler, time off is measured in hours if you’re lucky, not days.
Sometimes some j(insert position here) will say so and so jperson doesn’t do this as a tactic of manipulation.
Everyone here says ”otsukareta–!”.
lol, the mental gymnastics over this is astounding.
This is probably a strange suggestion, but maybe you and your husband could watch The Full time Wife Escapist? It starts off in a comedic situation but evolves into a pretty good example of a relationship of support for each other through difficult times. Both main characters are Japanese, yet despite this, they are trying to be more modern, equal, and healthy in their partnership roles. I sound like a commercial, but it touches on the greeting issue, struggle to communicate, and old fashioned ways vs. a team approach to family.
For more immediate advice, if you know what motivates, or pulls on the heart strings of your partner, some rephrasing could be helpful. For example, if your husband likes to feel masculine and needed, expressing you are so happy they are home to help you raise your child and free you up to rest so that you can be a better mother and wife (which is part of the purpose for needing a rest) they may respond better to that.
I don’t know what will work, but if what is happening now isn’t a deeper issue, altering your approach until you find something effective for you both is a decent goal. You might also offer something, as quid pro quo can be very effective. Example. Hi honey, I’m so relieved that you are home. Shall I give you 10 or 15 minutes of quiet to settle before we discuss what we need to accomplish today?
Do you think saying “I’m feeling so lazy” would make a difference? I wonder if it’s the choice of word or the situation that bothers him.
It is understandable to feel overwhelmed and tired when taking care of a toddler all week, and it is important to communicate this to your partner. It is also important to set boundaries and prioritize self-care. If you and your husband agreed upon designated recharge days, it is reasonable to expect that those days are respected.
It is possible that cultural differences may be playing a role in the way your husband is reacting to your fatigue. In many cultures, there may be expectations placed on women to be constantly cheerful and accommodating. However, it is important to have open and honest communication with your partner about your needs and expectations, and to find a way to compromise that works for both of you.
It is also important to address the issue of your tone of voice with your husband. While it may be difficult for him to understand the nuances of language and tone in English if it is not his native language, it is still important for him to recognize and respect your communication style. Perhaps you could try to find a way to communicate your feelings in a way that feels more natural to you, such as writing them down or speaking in Japanese.
Overall, it is important to prioritize open communication, respect for each other’s needs and boundaries, and finding a way to compromise that works for both of you. Seeking couples counseling may also be a helpful resource to address any underlying issues and improve communication.
I find that the husband / wife dynamic here is a lot closer to the 1950s and 60s dynamic in the west.
His asking for you to be more cheerful when he gets home, his idea of the “wife’s” role especially in comparison to how Japanese wives do things and you need to get onboard and do them the same way because you are in japan is concerning.
I feel like you guys should have talked about these things before getting married, or that if you did it wasn’t done well, or he now wants what he perceives he’s missing out on (a cheerful cooking, cleaning, doting machine).
You see this a lot in reverse as well when Japanese women marry English teachers and then after being married they get annoyed when all their friend’s husband’s careers progress, but their foreign husband is not bringing home the bacon.
Even if it’s just a difference in cultural understanding of marriage and your roles it’s still a you guys problem, because the two of you need to figure it out. Personally, tying to squeeze myself into a stereotypical role I didn’t grow up with (and don’t particularly care for) would not work for me.
How to artfully say “I’m tired” to different types of people…
I’m very socially awkward so I rely on dividing people into some rough categories so that I have a good game plan when I communicate with them to yield the best results.
Your husband is probably the type that responds better to a “call to action” (type 2).
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————— Below are the three main categories of Japanese people personalities I have interacted with.
Type 1:
Characteristic: you can say your thing and they cannot connect it to follow-up actions on their part. They seldom accuse you of being rude or selfish for saying that, but they might just act like they don’t care enough about it.
Example: you told them something happened today that made you upset. They look at you and be like “sounds bad, what does it have to do with me though?”
How to yield positive response:
– get them to ask you, instead of you spoon-feeding them information. let them arrive at the conclusions themselves and be a part of the decision-making.
– if one day you get really fed-up and lash out, they will be very confused about “the very sudden change in attitude.”
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Type 2:
Characteristic: opposite to Type 1 who puts themselves out of things, Type 2 are mentally more involved. They interpret your speech as a direction to do something or act a certain way.
Example:
– girlfriend shows them a new manicure → “oh I gotta say it looks pretty”
– mom says the bathroom is dirty → “she’s suggesting I go clean it when I have time”
– wife says she’s tired → “she might expect me to take care of it. That’s a lot to ask”
How to yield positive response:
– start with “call to action” and then follow with the reason. For instance, “I’d want you to give me a hug because I’m tired” works better than “I’m tired.”
– instead of a “diffused” statement of you are tired for an indefinite amount of time, incorporate time stamps in the command. For example, “I’d like you to do the dishes when I’m on my period next week”.
– they don’t respond too well to day-to-day bubbles of “negativity” although they are truly sympathetic when they think it’s unique/severe enough. If you always say you are tired/busy/hate the work, they’ll be like we are *all* tired/busy/hate our works so what are you trying to accomplish here?
– they respond very well to appreciation, positive feedbacks, and are motivated to make you happy.
In your example I would try to say it this way, “I have some other stuff I’d like to prioritize now and I will try to get to it in the afternoon maybe. How does that sound?” and a type 2 person will typically say “Ok got it, but let me know if you can’t do it and need me to fill in because I gotta plan ahead.” Maybe I just trained them really well to be so cooperative, but you can clearly see they are very problem-solving oriented.
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Type 3:
Characteristic: opposite to Type 2 who are almost too objective, Type 3 are overwhelmingly subjective. They care little about facts and more about their feelings and how things make them feel.
Example: Before even trying to do something they go on and on about how difficult it is.
How to yield positive response:
– don’t try to solve their problems or provide unsolicited advice.
– you always have to sound sympathetic and accepting, without being too cloying it sounds insincere. they will say the same things over and over again and you have to tolerate it.
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“He’s also made comments about how my voice sounds angry and mean when I talk and that I need to “be more cheerful when greeting him when he gets home.” Which feels like some sort of expectation he had for me that I was unaware of until now. ”
When I read this part I was vigorously nodding.
I once had a Japanese guy criticized me and it was vitriolic. I nodded and said “I can see that. Last time we were at [place] and I did [things] and it was like that. I appreciate you bringing it up to me and I’ll do better the next time.”
He then criticized my facial expression, saying “you looked sad when I called you a XXX and it’s really rude.” Then he provided reasoning “have you thought about how much energy it takes me to have to sit you down and tell you these things? When the recipient looks sad when hearing that, it makes me feel like I have just bullied you. I’m trying to help you and your expression is making you look like a victim. You should be more considerate of the other’s feelings and control your facial expressions.”
Like you said “My voice is just my voice”, I thought “my face is just my face.” Plus it would be one thing if I was uncooperative but I think I covered my bases nicely, at least verbally. So it seemed like we have different interpretations of the ranges of our personal boundaries and how much is too much to expect from someone, it’s not the kind of disagreement we can resolve in one setting, and I decided to get out of that conversation as swiftly as possible.
Going back to your experience at home, I think the apparent lesson from both of our experiences is that there’s a certain number of people who **care** about these subtle things such as facial expressions and tone of voice. The three types are personality traits but the care of details might be a little bit of a cultural thing.
If you are not in a position to withdraw from these relationships, you’d need to acknowledge that to them these things are important, although you and I could care very little about it.
“You’re tired? I’M TIRED!” sounds like this gentleman feels underappreciated at work and/or at home, and has self-worth issues.
I’m saying this because I used to be like this in our first few years of marriage. I was simply being unappreciative of how equally draining it is to raise a baby, and I “needed” to direct my frustrations at my wife.
About the need to change your behavior because of cultural expectations… It sounds like a method of manipulation, but I think this also stems from some underlying psychological issue.
People will probably downvote me for making so many assumptions, and I am not implying I am 100% right… I’m talking from my own experience. I was the asshole, the same way your husband is hurting you now.
I really hope you both can fix it. Open communication is the key. There’s a book called Nonviolent Communication that might be useful.
Strength to you both!
I can’t say I understand what a “recharge day” is exactly. Is it like – Dad takes the child out to the park somewhere and you get some free time? Or a “mommy is going out today” thing?
I can say that I (50s M) was sort of more of the primary caretaker if you will in the toddler years. We had a child late (was in my mid-40s) and I was on a flexible contract for awhile after a job redundancy.
Toddler years can be really tough. Especially when you’ve got a really energetic one and when work is demanding. It gets easier. For me, it was around 4 yo that the change was quite noticeable.
So a couple of thoughts –
* Recharge day – maybe you need to think about what this is. We did a lot of park stuff. I didn’t really have a recharge day. We had family time, but not me time.
* If it’s some time you need alone, you might want to get up and get out of the house. If it is something you guys agreed on, just up and out and “Ok – mommy’s heading out”.
* The cheerful voice thing – yeah – that does sound very cultural. A man could get hurt for saying that in New Jersey.
* It gets easier
Hope you have a houikuen during the week?
Sure got a lot of incompatible GPartners and JPeople up in here.
OP: You seem to be writing messages on Reddit at 2:00AM. Then claim to your husband that you are too tired to contribute to the household. I guess that could explain some of his annoyance at you.