I think my company is gearing up for a mass firing of people. It’s a Japanese company so I never really expected that this might happen but all the signs are there.
My situation is made a little more worse since during a massive reorganizing of departments, I was moved to one that doesn’t even need me. I don’t do any projects for this department and all the work that I have is still coming from what was my previous dept but it has been renamed and given new management. I’ve asked to be moved back multiple times but they keep telling me that there’s no position for me despite all the work I am currently doing for them.
I guess, I want to know from you guys if I should just expect the worst and if there is anything I should prepare for or can do legally.
It’s my understanding that under the Japanese labor laws you cannot be fired that easily and that you have to break the terms of your contract to have it terminated.
By the way, I’ve worked at this company as a manager for 7 years.
15 comments
Lol indeed you are not safe for work
There are several steps that need to be taken to fire someone in japan. Moving you to another department is one but before that are others. They cannot take shortcuts with this. If they do you can sue unless you broke terms on your contract.
It’s a typical tactic they use to make you feel redundant and leave by yourself.
The more you have been with the company the more they have to pay if you do decide to sue. It’s a painstakingly slow process though.
Getting fired is hard, but layoffs happen all the time, and often upheld when challenged in court. It’s just one of those myths that get propagated on this sub. The company just has to “make an effort” to minimize layoffs. The massive reorganizing you mentioned is one example of making an effort, among other things like hiring freeze.
Based on the limited info you’ve sent it sounds like the company is managed incompetently but there’s no indication from that that they’re planning to fire everyone. Do you have other information to that effect? You probably should consider leaving anyway though, since it sounds like your job is pointless and that is probably kind of depressing as-is.
Are all of the people in your new department strangely also from other different departments?
If so, I think that you might be in the banishment room 🙁
What’s severance pay like? Ideally, you want them to lay you off. If you quit, you’ll probably not get severance.
In the meantime, spruce up your CV, and see what’s happening on LinkedIn.
Look for a new position while you’re still getting paid.
I’d suggest finding a new job. They’re essentially paying you to find one. Might take a while but if they offer you enough severance jump at it.
If it’s a mass layoff, it means the company has already tried several other strategies to reduce losses. One of those would be a restructuring of staff/departments as you mentioned. IIRC companies need to apply for a mass layoff, demonstrating how all other avenues were tried and failed, before getting approval from the labor office to conduct a mass layoff.
Mass layoffs are a last resort, and as others have said, will most likely be upheld in court if challenged.
If you are worried, start applying for a new job now.
It could just be rumors about mass layoffs to encourage some people to leave of their own accord.
Just keep turning up. If you work dries up flag that to HR.
Then if they come for you don’t sign a thing. They’ll probably make you a time bound offer to sign something if they want to lay you off. But you hold the power until you sign something.
Consult with a union. I recommend the Tokyo Manager’s Union.
Question relayed ; is severance tax free ?
Are they demoting you by stealth? If it’s a Japanese company, with a base plus salary system, they may be trying to lower your take home salary by removing one of your add on retainers. Removing you from the dept would be the easiest way to do this.
Having worked in a very traditional Japanese company myself, I think you basically have two options. Leave (whether by them eventually laying you off, or voluntarily by finding a new job), or try to integrate yourself into the new department. The latter isn’t easy, but I’ve seen it done before (admittedly under more pleasant circumstances).
No one here can see the full picture, you’re going to have to judge for yourself, but you still have tools at your disposal. I felt sidelined once, deliberately filled in the mandatory stress check so I would get summoned to the doctor and told the somewhat astonished doc how being underutilized was stressing me out. It got me a face to face with the person 2 or 3 levels higher than me and the situation was worked out. Think how you may be able game the system and that may give you a way forward, assuming that you are willing to stay of course.
Most people here would ask you to cling to your rights.
I would rather say the best is that you jump the boat to some greener field, it’s not a question of right or money, it’s a question of working with purpose rather than going down the dance of “you can’t fire me/ok I will make you feel useless”.
I know many people trying to cling to their old company because they think they deserve the security (which may or may not be true), and then stay stuck in some soul sucking position where they hate their company and work, and the company hate them and treat them as leeches.
It is a miserable position that doesn’t do any good to your mental health. All the energy you would spend improving people’s life will end up suck in those pointless turf war.
Why wait. Start looking around.
Hey OP, it sucks to hear. I went through a similar process the last few months due to company preparing to lay off people in Japan, etc (we are a multinational american company going through layoffs worldwide). Luckily I got spared but I learned **a lot** from speedrunning through “organizing a union” and studying a lot of labor laws in preparation.
Here’s some advice I learned and I’ve been giving to my coworkers who are being laid off (and who we are trying to save via union negotiations):
– Record **every** exchange you have with HR, even without telling them. Recording in Japan is allowed as long as one party of the exchange is aware of it. You can legally record them without them knowing. This will become incredibly useful during negotiation time and/or if you have to take this to court.
– **Join a union**. I cannot stress this enough. From a more american point of view unions might be seen as this negative thing, but in Japan they are a normal and even expected reality of being an employee. Organize with your coworkers and if you don’t already have a union branch, found one. In Japan you can create a legal union entity by just three people from the same company coming together and deciding “we are now a union”. You can get better legal protection if you join a more mature union as an independent branch, but just to get started just saying “we are a union” is enough. Being in a union means that the company is **required** by law to negotiate with you and cannot bully you (legally at least) into signing any offer of (in)voluntary dismissal. It actually looks incredibly bad if they try to force you to sign knowing you are a union member and you can easily take it to the labour bureau for an easy legal win. Companies know this and the instant you tell them you are a union member they will do a 180 in attitude towards you (I’ve seen this with my own eyes)
– In Japan, if you are a 正社員, they cannot fire you like this. They need to come up with some **real** performance problems and show that they have tried to get you to improve over a period of time. That they gave you plenty of opportunity to fix the problems. Unless it’s gross misconduct on your part (or illegal stuff), they just cannot fire you. They can try to have you sign a voluntary early retirement package/deal, but that’s on you to accept, they cannot force you. On the other hand, if they need to do actual mass layoffs, they first have to go through other means like showing that the company is risking bankruptcy, that they tried to apply cost-saving measures in other places, and that firing people is the absolute last resort before going under. Companies know this and that’s why they will try to get people to “voluntarily” resign.
– On the legal side, in my personal experience (and that of some of my coworkers who went through this), pretty much every lawyer you talk to will tell you to join (or found) a union ASAP. This should be your first line of defense and your priority. Unions give you better protection than any laywer ever could. You, your union, and your company, all of you definitely **do not want** to go to court. A lawyer is the last resort only if you need to sue the company (usually for misconduct, unfair firing, etc) **after** you’ve gone through your union. Unions are strong. Join one.
– The company will lie to you at all stages. They will try to bully you into signing, they will tell you “we are letting you go and you have to sign”. **DO NOT SIGN**. This is why being in a union is important. The company is legally not allowed to talk to you if you are in a union. They need to talk to the union and go through proper collective bargaining channels. If you aren’t in a union, they **will** try to bull you, lie to you, tell you “via implication” that you will be fired (you will not) so you need to sign “for your own good” (do not sign). I’ve seen this happen with my own eyes.
– The company might try to convince you that your role is not available in the company anymore and they cannot give you a job. **This is illegal**. You need to let them know that they cannot fire you and that it’s **on them** (not on you) to find you a new role that is equivalent to your current one. The company is not allowed to change the terms of contract to convince you to leave: they cannot change your start and end working times, they cannot tell you you now have to work from a different city/office, they cannot change your role like if you’re an engineer they cannot force you to work in sales, they cannot reduce your pay (although they might reduce your bonus/stock if you have some). They will threaten you with it, but it’s illegal and they are banking on you not knowing that.
– What is legal and what actually happens can differ. It might be illegal to fire people like this in Japan, but companies do illegal shit all the time unfortunately. Japan has insanely strong labor laws, but the laws are worthless if they aren’t tested and challenged in court. Having the support and backing of a collective group (union) can help you in court as well, however if the company does something shitty to you, it might have to go through court (and this is usually a long and extenuating process that costs a lot of money and you will very likely win but it takes time and eats into your savings. You will get your money back **when**, not if, you win, but companies know most people don’t want to go through all that).
As for actual practical steps I can recommend:
– Found/join a union with your coworkers.
– **Do not sign anything**
– HR will likely schedule a meeting with you. Record that meeting (in secret) and be firm in stating the following **and be clear you expect a real answer**:
– “Am I being fired?”
– “What happens if I refuse to sign this severance package?” ”
– “If my role is impacted, you will find a new position/team for me right?”
– Clearly state/announce that you are a union member and that they have to talk to your union
They will offer you a package. Don’t sign anything unless you are certain. The package will be a couple months salary and a pay out of your paid leave potentially. It’s common to either take it as a lump sum payment but instantly terminates your employment OR be on so called “garden leave” where you’re still officially employed and receive your salary as usual but don’t have to work.