I’ve always heard to use as much Japanese as possible to retain it, but I’ve struggled quite a lot trying to as I’ve only worked through Genki 1. I just find that the grammar isn’t enough or at least it feels very restrictive and frustrating. Is there anything I can do or do I just have to live with the frustration until I learn more? If I can’t do much, at what point should I start to find it a little easier? (Or am I just impatient)
13 comments
It get easier bit by bit. I started studying last summer and only now finished first volume of a manga that I like. What kind of interactions are you trying out?
The more time you spend with the language the easier it gets. You have genki 1 as a foundation, now go get more words and grammar under your belt. You can keep going with genki 2 if that’s your style. You can watch a show with subtitles and try to extract as much new info as possible. Graded readers or other Anki decks are possibilities.
My start included Jlabs anki deck, and RRTK anki deck with the RTK book. This is how I built up some kanji recognition, grammar and vocab. While multitasking playing video games or driving I would listen to the genki videos by tokini Andy and stop and focused on areas I didn’t understand.
After and current I’ve just been consuming media and adding words and grammar patterns that are new.
Just use the grammar you have, switch and swap nouns and verbs. Write it out, say it aloud. Grow bit by bit – output is tough afterall. Recognition is also a different skill than output.
Are you immersing yourself with the language outside of Genki?
Genki is a great tool to introduce yourself to Japanese grammar but as it’s just that, a tool, I think it’s very important for you to find other ways to encounter what you’ve learned to make it sink in.
1. Read, read, read.
There are loads of great websites out there offer simple Japanese stories, news articles and other things.
2. Find a language partner.
Use apps like tandem if it’s hard to find native speakers in your country.
3. Watch and listen to Japanese media.
Shows, movies, podcasts etc. If you find it frustrating to watch more complex contents try kids shows. It’s a great way to immerse yourself.
There are many more ways to use what little knowledge you have. The more you immerse yourself the more you’ll learn even outside of Genki.
Don’t forget the most important part of language learning: If you’re serious about it you should try to surround yourself with the language on a daily basis. However much time you can/want to spare. 30min a day is better than 3h once a week.
do genki 2 and then you will have enough ammo to start graded readers
after that you can read books (badly, but it’s a start)
you’re basically at the most boring part where most people burn out, don’t be one of them
At your level its better to play the game of “Spot what I understand”
What is the subject? What is the Object/Verb? Is there an adjective? With just the subject, object and verb can you guess what the sentence is about?
Pop it into google translate and see if you were close.
While not as fun as actual reading will be, it is what you can start doing now.
Get your nose out of the book and get out there and just swim.
I lived in Japan and how I got started was pretty much ”日本語で「English word/phrase」は何ですか？” (Nihongo de (BLANK) was nan desu ka?). Just that little sentence took me so far it’s ridiculous. I still use it today reflectively (even though I should sometimes open up a Japanese dictionary and find out myself).
Don’t get me wrong, it was almost years later before I decided to open up a book and regretted all the time wasted by doing it the hard way. But, the one thing I was happy about is the things I did learn that way I never forgot or ever got confused over. It was experienced learning and even though books were priceless… I would forget things if I only knew them “abstractly” from learning material vs when went out to practice it.
I also had the benefit that I did not care anymore about not knowing, being embarrassed, etc… You’d be surprised how much you can say without a big vocabulary/grammar or even without words. One of my favorite youtube videos was some guy showing how you can speak Japanese without saying one word, it was all “eeeeh, sooooo…, uuuuun” and head nods and such.
You’ve basically read all about how to properly doggy paddle but, haven’t even jumped in a kiddie pool. Go.
Slap on some floaties with, “Gomen. Watashi no nihongo wa heta desu.” and just trying to swim. I 100% guarantee you will do way better than I did in my first 2 years of unstructured learning.
If by “using” you mean “output”, then one idea I like is to write out bullet points about your day, or just random observations every/any day… Similar to a journal, but no pressure of writing full sentences or anything.
If you’re interested re: reading look up the KKLC Graded Readers, or crystal hunters manga is specifically written for learners. I mention those two specifically bc they both have early learners in mind, where as many other things, it’s better if you’re a bit further along
You’re not going to learn more by limiting yourself to what you already know. Learning a language is frustrating because of how much you don’t know. There’s no way around that. You can’t become fluent and *then* start using it. You have to put yourself in situations where you don’t understand 100% of what is being said.
> I’ve always heard to use as much Japanese as possible to retain it
“Use” doesn’t necessarily mean speak. If you regularly hear and read 食べる you’re not going to forget what it means.
One book isn’t going to get you very far. I did Minna, and (with a lot of effort and mistakes) was able to rattle off some requests and simple sentences here and there.
I also made a bunch of flashcards and worksheets for myself. So owning and personalizing your learning might help.
Also, there are oceans of difference between textbook Japanese and everyday Japanese. That’s also part of the frustration. I’ve been at this for 10 years, and I still have NO idea what old Japanese men are saying. Like, at all.
Edit: this is mostly advice for speaking with limited knowledge, but it can also work for writing. It’s not going to help much with reading or listening to stuff that’s above your level (but reading and listening are super helpful for improving both your speaking and writing!!)
“Circumlocution” is my best friend, that is basically defining the word I don’t know in words I do know. If I don’t know the word for “store clerk” (or I do know it, but I conveniently forget the word the moment I needed it) I would say the equivalent of “person who works at a store”, for example.
I got this idea from “13 secrets for speaking fluent Japanese” by Giles Murray, (“fluent” in this case meaning quickly being able to use what you do know, even if it’s not much, not “fluent” as in speaking at an advanced level)
Here’s the gist of it:
○○物（もの）
(Describing an object you don’t know the name for)
○○こと
(Describing a thing or idea you don’t know the name for)
○○状態（じょうたい）
(Describing a state of being or situation you don’t know the name for)
○○場所（ばしょ）
(Describing a type of place you don’t know the name for)
○○人（ひと）
(Describing a type of person you don’t know the name for)
○○any category of noun (ie 動物（どうぶつ）、食べ物（たべもの)
(Describing more specifically a thing you don’t know the name for)
Some examples (these may be unnatural! These are just off the top of my head):
学校の教科書を入れるもの （リュック）
がっこう の きょうかしょ を いれる もの
学校が終わること（卒業）
がっこう が おわる こと （そつきょう）
仕事がない状態 （失業）
しごと が ない じょうたい （しつぎょう）
映画を見る場所（映画館）
えいが を みる ばしょ （えいがかん）
バスを運転する人（バス運転手）
バス を うんてんする ひと （バスうんてんしゅ）
首が長くて黄色い動物（キリン）
くび が ながくて きいろい どうぶつ
長くて紫色の野菜（なす）
ながくて むらさきいろ の やさい
It doesn’t work all the time, or they might just be confused, so I’ll try again with different words and if they still don’t understand, I might pull out my phone and look in the dictionary, but I want to avoid doing that as much as possible.
I also sometimes just try saying the English word in a “katakana eigo” pronunciation and hope that it’s either an actual Japanese word, or they can remember the word from school if they hear it in a Japanese accent. For example, my friends had no idea what an “armadillo” was when I inserted it into a Japanese sentence with English pronunciation, but when I said アルマジロ, they knew what I was talking about.
Not having the right grammar is a little bit more tricky, and I don’t have great tips for that, but I just try to think of how I can refrase the idea I want to get across with words and grammar that I do know.
If you’re talking to people in person, pantomiming is also super helpful if you’re having trouble getting your idea across.
The more you practice circumlocution, the better you get, and the more okay you feel being a bit silly in order to get your meaning across. After a while, it becomes like a game, trying to see how much you can communicate with your limited knowledge. 🙂 It’s kinda fun.
頑張って!
がんばって！
Basically I’d try to find the hardest thing you can plausibly read with a dictionary at hand and still be engaged in reading it and try that. But yeah it used to take like an hour to read a page or two for me.
You Anki grind and then as you do that you watch anime in subbed. If you’re desperate, you can use YomiChan to read manga and throw any new words in an Anki deck that way, but you’ll only really start to understand stuff around 6k words N2 level