I’m almost half way through Genki 1 and I’ve been learning more casual Japanese through listening material. I hear this a lot, things like 「中はだめな**の**…外ならどこでもいい**ん**だけど…」
I’ve asked ChatGPT, looked it up too, and for some reason I’m not getting it.
Is there any logical connection to English? Also, is it related at all to the の that modifies?
5 comments
Read this:
[https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/explanatory-nda-ndesu-noda-nodesu/](https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/explanatory-nda-ndesu-noda-nodesu/)
And two tips:
* Don’t ask ChatGPT to explain Japanese grammar. Many times it will just make up complete BS that sounds convincing (sometimes it can be right, but you’ll have no way of telling the difference as an early learner)
* Don’t try to connect everything to English. There are many aspects of Japanese grammar that need to be understood and conceptualized in terms of Japanese. Not everything can be clearly, easily conveyed through some equivalent English grammar point.
The first phrase is 中はだめ**だ** – but the explanatory のだ has been added to the end of the phrase – however the だ before the の is changed to な (the connective form of the copula – you have to do this whenever の follows だ), and the だ after the の has been dropped. So finally you get 中はだめなの.
Similarly, the second phrase is also marked with the explanatory のだ, but in this case the の has been abbreviated to ん.
See [https://youtu.be/lYvIOi8Q3I8](https://youtu.be/lYvIOi8Q3I8) for a more detailed explanation.
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Edit:
>Also, is it related at all to the の that modifies?
In a way, but not something to worry about – it’s better described as related to the nominalizing function of の.
の is, in technical terms, the *genetive case particle.* Genetive here comes from the same Latin root *gens* that gives us genre, genera, gender, and more, all meaning kind, type, sort, category, and so on.
What it does is turn whatever comes before it into a category to which the next thing belongs. When used as the possessive particle like English ‘s or ‘of,’ this is fairly clear: the noun is the category. 「それは私の猫です; that is my cat.」
But this can be extended far more broadly, such as to turn a whole phrase into a noun which can then become the subject or object of a sentence, which is known as *nominalising*: 「あのとき、見たのは… what I saw that time was…」; 「怖いのが出た！ Something scary appeared!」。 The explanation form of ん/の is an extension of this usage. It turns the sentence into a single unit.
Also, don’t ask chatbots to explain complex topics like that. They don’t really understand what they’re saying and will only give you nonsense that sounds convincing.
ん and の both seek or provide an explanation through context.
We are college students and have the same class. You see me with my head on the desk, which is uncharacteristic. You have questions:
You: 大丈夫ですか。頭が痛いんですか。Are you okay? Does your head hurt (I’m asking because you’re head is down…)?
Me: ううん。宿題がたくさんあって、徹夜したんだ。Mm-mmm. It’s because I had a bunch of homework and pulled an all-nighter (so I’m tired, as you see).
In you’re example:
中はだめなの… Inside is no good (because of whatever the context is).
外ならどこでもいいんだけど… Well, if it’s outside, wherever is okay (given the circumstances), but (what’s your opinion).
>「中はだめなの…外ならどこでもいいんだけど…」
🤨📸