I would sometimes get a perfect score on all sections which are grammar, vocab, listening, and kanji. However, when the sensei suddenly ask questions on the spot or tried to make a conversation with me, I cannot answer at all.
I’m now starting to question if there’s any sense of me studying and perfecting all the quizzes when I cannot use it in a conversation.
I just want to share and get this off my mind. Will appreciate it if you have any tips and recommendations.
Edit: for context I just passed N5 and is currently studying for N4
25 comments
It will come with practice. I was not really good at speaking at first, not finding the words, not able to build the sentence on the spot, then with lot of practice (more than studying), my speaking/listening is much better than my reading skill.
Well, N5 isn’t all that much in the grand scheme of things, so makes sense you’d struggle. Also conversation is its own activity that needs practice, which, I’m assuming is what your sensei is doing, so it’ll come to you in time. Also, it’ll help if you try a bit of immersion; watch anime or read manga or whatever so you know how people actually speak in Japanese (though do note that these media tend to exaggerate some qualities for… Uh… Reasons).
I had this problem with Spanish when I was in college. It ultimately came from being afraid to make a mistake so I’d overthink everything and doubt myself and end up saying nothing. What helped me get over it was studying abroad. Now that doesn’t mean flying to Japan is your only option, it just means putting yourself in a situation where you have to use Japanese, where you have no choice but to use the language regularly. That is to say, you just need more practice
When I was learning German, it took me to B1 or B2 to be able to talk, the equivalent of N3 or N2. Unless you’re specifically trying to practice speaking, don’t expect to be able to do it so fast.
Recognition and understanding is different from output. At your level output is tough and your expressions are very limited – shadowing, conversations or lots of inner monologuing will help, but this comes with hours of using Japanese – not reading or listening to it.
N5 is very much beginner level. Don’t feel bad about not being able to speak a whole lot. It probably feels bad, but you’ll be much better at speaking in a couple years.
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A lot of us are mediocre at speaking even around an N3/N2 level. A lot of Chinese students can’t really speak much at all despite being N1 level. Just keep practicing and don’t neglect convo practice. it’ll come.
You get good at speaking by speaking a lot, it’s like sports. You can read all about techniques till the cows come home and that’s good, but you can’t actually be good at it unless you do it. As they say in Japanese, 体で覚える.
I just passed the N1.
Good luck trying to make me talk coherently.
Talk to people more. If you’re not practicing conversation you won’t get better at conversation. (In response to the follow-up question how do I find people?) try language exchange apps like tandem or italki. Get to know people then ask if they want to chat on the phone. It’s awkward at first but you have to do it if you want to be able to converse.
Remember that having a normal spontaneous conversation is actually really advanced language use. The quizzes are a step on the way, and you’re doing well with them!
A lot of tests test for performance – scoring well on the test, but not necessarily proficiency – being able to use the language well. But, just because you’re unable to speak well, it’s not a mark against you, nor is it your teacher’s fault.
When looking at proficiency there are a few milestones we need to think about:
For our example situation: What food do you like and why?
First is the “zero” stage. There is no language production, it’s incomprehensible to a sympathetic speaker (they’re trying to make connections) or it’s unrelated to the prompt or a response like “わかりません.”
Second is words. A few words like a list are generated and they connect to the situation. “ピザ。すし。ハンバーガー。” Ideally it’s a few recognizable words in isolation or perhaps connected in a short phrase: “ピザが好き,” but phrases are an exception.
Third is phrases. A subject or object is connected to a noun. “ピザが好きです。すしを食べます。大好き。” The phrases need to be sufficient in number, and at the upper end a sentence with a subject object and verb might be present: “私はすしが好きです。”
Next is sentences. Using a set fill-in-the-blank formula is insufficient, so ideally a variety of subjects and verbs are used, when applicable. “私はすしが好きです。私はすしをよく食べます。”
Stings of sentences related to they situation, but not entirely integrated with conjunctions come next: “私はすしが好きです…よく食べます。家族はステーキが好きです。私は肉を食べるのが好きじゃないです。食べません。.” We can also see prepositional phrases and so on.
Pre-paragraphs start to see more conjunctions to further connect things, but they’re still uncommon: “私はすしが大好きです。よく食べます。家族はステーキを食べます。でも、私は肉を食べるのが好きじゃないですから、食べません。”
Paragraphs look for multiple isolated paragraphs; multi-paragraphs look for multiple connected paragraphs, and so on. There’s also an expectation that reasons will be expressed more clearly and the speaker is able to handle more situations, including unexpected situations with greater ease.
To get better at speaking, if there are speaking opportunities in class, try to seize those occasions and maybe try to push yourself. Outside of class meet with tutors or friends from class to push yourself. If you can do words, go for phrases. If you’re doing phrases, aim for sentences.
Speaking is a hard skill. It’s getting all of those words that are inside OUT in order fairly quickly. It takes time to build that rapid recall and make it automatic.
In class, you might also be feeling put on the spot, or not at your best, so this makes it hard, especially if you’re worried about mistakes or something. That’s normal. Classes should be a place you can fail safely in. Everyone makes mistakes.
Actually using a language in real life is a whole different skill. Perfect scores on exams don’t mean much. You gotta do whatever you can to practice speaking. If you don’t get a lot of speaking opportunities, at the very least listen to as much Japanese as you can– podcasts are wonderful. I highly recommend [Nihongo con Teppei for beginners.](https://nihongoconteppei.com/) It might be a little tough for N5, but keep at it. You can also find it on most podcast services (Spotify, Google, etc).
Also, don’t focus so much on N5, N4, etc. Proficiency tests are only important if you’re looking to work in Japan. Following study guides tailored toward these tests will not be as useful for actually using Japanese outside of work (talking to friends or consuming Japanese media).
In my studies I found a couple of things —
* being good at coursework does not mean you’ll have any comprehension or real world applicable knowledge.
* you can still have zero % comprehension in reading and listening even if you know a large amount of vocabulary and grammar.
The only real cure for that is subjecting yourself to real-world Japanese. You can do that through dramas, books…. media in general really. But you’re likely going to have to sit down and pick it apart. That’s the best way I’ve found to learn natural phrasing, and words that I wasn’t otherwise picking up.
Speaking skills require speaking. So somehow, somewhere, some way you need to practice repeating what you hear. You can get a tutor, or record yourself, or make posts on Hellotalk.
If you’re having auditory issues, and can’t pick out even words you know in Japanese, then you should watch something with Japanese subtitles, and if you can, replay lines until you can pick all the words out. (I use Language Reactor for this).
The bad news is, the JLPT doesn’t follow practical use, and likewise, practical use doesn’t follow the JLPT. For instance, I know a lot of N2 and N1 words because they’re common, even in children’s shows, but I don’t know a lot of N3 words because I just don’t need them.
Also the phrasing we’re taught in the learning phase also does not necessarily reflect what’s regularly heard IRL.
Like one of the first words I learned was “isu” (chair). I can’t say I’ve heard “isu” EVER since then. Instead I hear “seki” (seat), which NO learning material has ever bothered to teach me.
Reading, listening, writing and speaking are all different skills and you have to practice accordingly.
I have very few opportunities to speak Japanese, and it’s really strange trying to explain to people that I can hear someone speak Japanese and interpret it with little effort, but if you asked me to say something back to them, I’d make a fool of myself.
What works for me is to practice saying basic sentences aloud to yourself. Of course, practicing with other people is best, but by yourself, you lose that pressure of having to think of words fast, so you can speak at your own pace. I don’t know if this will help you, but for me, I used to get mediocre to bad scores on my class quizzes/tests, but I can at least talk a fair bit while learning N5 content. Good luck!
bare minimum conversation is N3 I think. and even if you passed N1, you won’t be able to make a conversation because passing exam meaning studying for exam and become good at exam.
to make a conversation you need to practice conversation
This is normal.
Yeah… it takes foreeeeever. You need to practice more making conversation. N5 you will be limited in your topics and expression coz it’s the beginner level. But that being said… you can still have a conversation with someone. Just a very paired back simple one. Where and how do you practice outside of your lessons? You need to find a way to speak it more. I recommend italki for less expensive conversational teachers.
Studying vocab is important. Otherwise you won’t have vocab when speaking. Studying kanji is important. Otherwise u can’t read anything.
Learning Japanese is a hard thing to do and it takes time. You need to just make peace with that, and then you won’t get depressed anymore
I was this way back when I was n5. What I did was study ahead of the class.
I wrote out a journal full of sentences over and over again.
I’d write down entire scenes from TV shows that i seemed likely to run into.
I’d go back and find situations I’d ran into and write out even more whenever I encountered something more casual or that grammatically more natural.
Whenever i was in a situation where I needed a copy paste response or conversation topic i was way ahead of my classes even after genki ii.
I went online and found Japanese language buddies. We would go over these scenario and I would ask for advice on making them sound more natural.
Our campus had Japanese exchange students. I talked to their professor and organized a meet and greet. From there a few of us exchanged contact information. We’d go out for coffee or bowling and practice our language skills together.
I’d show them the grammar exercises in the book and they’d give me even better responses than expected.
When we went on a class trip to Japan for two weeks I was the only one capable/confident enough to do simple stuff.
They went home and I stayed another two months exploring with a rail pass and meeting all of my penpals and family friends.
Like ask for directions, make reservations, or order off of a Dennys menu without pointing.
I worked full time and helped with a small family woodworking business on top of full time school. At the same time I had My first kid.
If I found time you absolutely can.
Speaking and thinking on your feet in a conversation is an entirely different skill that needs its own practice and development.
You got this!! You are not stupid. It’s because you haven’t exercised that speaking muscle. If you spend every day practicing pushups, situps, jumping jacks (grammar, vocab, listening, etc.) You wouldn’t immediately expect to be good at doing a marathon (speaking). Sure, there’s some crossover, but if you want to run (speak), you have to practice running (speaking).
You got this!! Here are some resources I like for speaking, and my number one tip is to cherish your mistakes, because the more mistakes you make, the more you notice gaps in your understanding, the better you get. If you don’t make mistakes your progress will be much slower.
Resources:
Talking with people is the best practice in my opinion. When you’re by yourself, or you can’t find a language partner, talk to yourself out loud, or record yourself talking on any voice recorder app and listen back to it, or shadowing.
These are apps I’ve tried for output practice. I haven’t tried italki cuz I don’t have that kind of cash, but I’ve heard it can be good!
Hello Talk for corrections on writing and finding an exchange partner to voice call (Tandem is also an option, but I haven’t used it much) There’s a bit of an art to finding a consistent exchange partner, and results can vary, but if you can make it work, it’s really awesome! Hello talk: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hellotalk Tandem: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.tandem
Shadowing (I used podcats at .5 speed for this, but there are other resources out there too). (What is shadowing? The first few minutes if this video explain: https://youtu.be/enARZ7BUqBU)
Paid option: Sail App $15 a month for unlimited conversations with volunteers (if their schedules online with what your availability is) https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.helte.android.sail
Google keyboard: Voice typing has been a key component of doing written output quickly. It’s also a slight feedback on my accent, because if even Google keyboard can’t understand what I’m saying, I might be extending a long vowel wrong, or not putting in the っ in the right place.
And of course, listening. Lots and lots and lots of listening will improve your speaking and pronunciation. Nihongo con Teppei is my favorite podcast and he has an essentials podcasts for very beginner learners, the beginner podcast for upper beginners, and an intermediate podcast as well. Here’s the first one, the Essentials podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3oFmPwJy2QgsJFKoOVKQib?si=u0_RsaV6QE2nFxBdeY21Fw
You wanna be good at conversation you need to do it as often as you do quizz
So you say you do well in all these areas but do you practice speaking sentences aloud ever? Of course you will stall if you’ve never tried to speak the words aloud. When you learn a new language it takes time to formulate a sentence and speak it aloud. You have to think about that you want to say, then translate it, then actually speak it. It’s much slower than speaking your native language. This isn’t a Hollywood film where the characters have rehearsed lines… Reality is much more awkward and slow. Young people these days live in a world where everything has to happen RIGHT NOW, everyone even speaks like they are always rushing to do something important. Take some study time to just make up sentences and speak them aloud so you’re warmed up for when your Sensei asks you something 👍
I highly reccomend watching Benjiro on Youtube… It was the first time I actually understood conversational Japanese. You’ll pick up a ton of words, and he even has a list of words at the end. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lYPTeN4Ixo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lYPTeN4Ixo)
Because you’re using two completely different parts of your brain haha. You get good at speaking the more you speak. They’re different processes.
Get a tutor or a language partner.