I had a few questions that are probably related, so I figured I would ask them all together here because this kind of review may be helpful for others as well.
1)
>会場の係員に場内を案内して（✗ もらう・○ もらえる）とのことだったので、車いすのままイベント会場に入った。私を案内してくれたのは、田中さんという若い女性で […]
Why is もらう wrong here? My N1 grammar book says about てもらう vs てもらえる that for the latter:
「他者に頼む」という意味がなくなる
So is it because the following してくれた indicates that he didn’t directly ask for this assistance from her? Would the first sentence in isolation be okay with either if there was no context?
2) It seems to me that, if you keep the particles aligned, てくれる and てもらえる can always be swapped when it comes to the standard positive meaning of both expressions (so ignoring things like indirect 迷惑 feeling やってくれる can be used for) . How about for this kind of case:
やっと雨があがってくれた。
Just to check, てもらえた would be wrong, correct? Any other cases where they can’t be swapped out that I’m missing?
3) Actually maybe related buuuut:
>自分がしたことでだれかが喜んで（○ くれる・✗ あげたい・✗ もらえる）・・・。人生においてこれに勝る喜びはないと思う。
So I think the key to this one is that 喜ぶ is intransitive and doesn’t usually take を , right? So we can’t have あげる・くれる ・もらえる in their usual meaning of *directly* receiving something from someone. That leaves us only with the “indirect feeling of gratitude or comfort” てくれる like in the ” やっと雨があがってくれた。” example. Is my understanding correct? The only thing that has me doubting myself is that it does seem [を喜ぶ is a thing?](https://massif.la/ja/search?q=%E5%96%9C%E3%82%93%E3%81%A7%E3%81%82%E3%81%92%E3%82%8B) But maybe the meaning changes in this usage to be incompatible?
4)
>「これ、もらってもらえるとありがたいんだけど・・・。」と言って、わたしによく服を譲ってくれる友人がいる。彼女がもう着ない服だ。自分が要らない服を人にもらって（✗ くれる・ ○ もらう）のは、意外に難しい。二人がとても親しくて、服の好みが合っている場合に限る。
I’m pretty surprised もらってもらう is a thing lol. Is there a Japanese verb that it can reliably be replaced with to keep the same meaning? That would help me keep it straight in my head.
5)
Also, would it still be okay if changed to:
自分に要らない服を人がもらってくれる
?
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It feels really embarrassing to be stuck on beginner giving expressions even though I’m studying for N1. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
3 comments
1) I’m coming at this as 頼む meaning “to rely on” and not “ask.”
もらえる means you had someone do something for you, and since it’s potential, it seems like it was a favor the speaker asked for.
Think:
知らない人に教えてもらった。- “I had a stranger tell me.” This seems like a simple fact. Since 〜てもらう can acknowledge someone’s goodwill, the “rely on” meaning seems stronger here.
知らない人に教えてもらえた。- “I was able to get a stranger to tell me.” This one seems to focus on the ability (communication) between the speaker and the stranger. Think of asking for a favor – 教えてもらえませんか。
Correct me if I’m wrong.
2&3) You can’t ask the rain to stop, note does it have any goodwill to rely on. くれる might be the most neutral.
I’d also assume someone’s emotions are as spontaneous as the weather.
4) Think of in English – someone is taking something off your hands and you’re grateful for it.
5) くれる usually focuses on the speaker, so now it sounds like she’s the one giving away clothes.
For Q1: That depends on who the receiver of the action is. If it’s もらう the situation will take a lot of different turns. The 係員 is the one going to receive the action 案内 (they can’t do their job properly lol) and the rest of the sentence is going to change as well, such as them telling you about it etc.
係員に「場内を案内してもらう」と言われて ←色々びっくりw
But if it’s もらえる, YOU are the one receiving the 案内 action from 係員.
For Q3: Because it’s
誰かが喜んでくれる or
誰かに喜んでもらえる
just pay attention to がand に。
For Q4: The speaker is humbling themselves so もらってもらえる. もらってくれる is not entirely incorrect, but if someone feels giving someone some extra stuff might be a burden to the receiver (like old or reused stuff) they might overly humble themselves like above.
For Q5: 自分が is correct, 自分に要らない is incorrect and kinda redundant because of the word いらない itself. And also most of the time these 自分 sentences talk generally, and in that sentence the 2nd character (not the clothes-giver) is giving an example, “it’s unexpectedly difficult to have someone receive clothes from you”, you = 自分.
If you really want to use に it would be:
自分に必要のない服を
自分にとって必要のない服を
1
* 案内してもらえるとのこと: They said that I/they would be able to have the staff guide me/them.
* 案内してもらうとのこと: They said that they would have the staff guide them.
Interpreting the latter as “They said that I would have” doesn’t make sense. They won’t tell you your will but your potential, hence the former.