I read that in the comments once: “I wouldn’t respect my dad if he was an Eikawa teacher.”
I mean I would never do this, but I’m not judging either. What if this Eikawa dude is the best father to his kids and best husband to his wife? What if he’s the nicest guy to have around? Why is it never enough and always about status and cash? Is it an American/Canadian thing to solely focus on personal accomplishments? Why do you care so much about this?
31 comments
If you haven’t ever heard this from someone in person, then just chalk it up to said online people being inflammatory misery-cunts.
Some rando on the internet said something dumb, so now it’s “foreigners say this”
EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently everyone in this sub is a TOTAL ASSHOLE.
It’s just a form of classism. I have had people immediately ask me if I am an English teacher and look almost relieved when I tell them I am in IT.
If it’s any consolation, Japanese people do this too. There is a binary between Seishain and not-seishain that affects social relationships outside of the workplace.
Further consolation, this isn’t just a Japan thing. Asking someone their job and determining their social value based on that happens in all cultures. People look down on fast food workers/cleaners/sex workers etc etc in the west. This shittiness transcends nation states my dude.
Crippling insecurity
a lot of people in this sub are desperate to legitimise their mediocre job by portraying someone else’s as worse
There is a bit too much trolling and harassment in this sub. I don’t care what work other people do, in general. I spent my first couple of years in Japan as an eikaiwa teacher because that was the only option I had to be able to stay here, so I’ve been there myself. The only time I ask someone what work they do is when they become instant experts on dentistry in those recurring dentist-bashing threads or when people start giving advice about work-related problems that runs contrary to my experiences as a manager here.
Usually it seems like they are struggling in some way and it makes them feel better about themselves. Punching down.
Sometimes the people saying that stuff have been English teachers themselves and so I guess they get a good feeling that they got an office job instead. They’ve “made it.”
You can see on the complaints thread that lots of folks are having a rough time in regular jobs here. It could be stressed people taking it out on the ones they see as weak in the gaijin group.
Another thing to consider is few people say these things in real life. So they’re taking on a persona where they are better than this group of people.
But it’s not helped by there being a history of ‘interesting’ characters who have done the job before. It doesn’t need saying again, but there are a number of teachers who have just been coasting and complaining since they arrived. Also, it is a line of work that seems to lead to more misery than joy , especially when you get past the initial part of your career.
>Why is it never enough and always about status and cash?
Seems the world is going that way to be honest.
Eikawa pay seems low, but it seems to be at least average or maybe slightly above the Japanese average wage.
I have nothing against eikaiwa teachers, but when I meet someone new who works at an eikaiwa, I have to assume that they are going to be in Japan for two or three years at most.
If they are genuinely here for the longhaul (and that comes out in the course of conversation), then I don’t treat them any differently from people doing any other job.
“Why do people care so much about other people’s business?” is the real question lol both on the internet and in real life
I only asked once a person what was her job.
Toho gas dealership to convert heater from citygas to lpg.
That poor girl was running out of helpline to call for info, so to try to defuse the situation I asked if it was her first job…
She proudly answered no and before that she was a masseuse.
I then decided to stop speaking and wait in silence…
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with eikaiwa work—I worked at an eikaiwa for a number of years and really enjoyed it for the most part. It is hard for people with families though since that kind of work doesn’t generally allow for any upward mobility or pay raises.
I started out here as an English teacher. Now I work for one of the biggest companies in the world… didn’t change me. I see everyone as equally respectable no matter what they do. Everyone has a purpose and everyone commits to society. Without each other we would crash and burn.
People who care about this are people who havent yet ascended beyond foolishness.
No matter the job position (not just in Japan, but arguably worldwide ), there will always be someone to shit on that job. When I worked as a receptionist at a nursing home during my HS days (US), nurses and higher admin staff looked at my job as a “kid’s job” or getting paid to do nothing but talk. Yeah, I got paid $11 to literally pick up the phone and direct calls, but it’s still a job.
People on this sub will continue to shit on ALT work, eikaiwa gigs, licensed teaching, university teaching, IT, translation/interpretation work, etc. As long there’s a miserable John Smith or Mary Johnson working a job they hate and unhappy with their current life situation, there’s gonna be someone here to demean others just because of the job they chose. Hell, there are people who shit on seishain position here (regardless of the field). Can’t make everyone happy and why even bother? As long as you’re happy, fuck em.
It’s mostly men who do this .. specifically white men.. I find.
It’s so insecure people feel better about themselves.
Something I also see that’s somewhat annoying is when people judge you for working/living in the inaka. I’ve met a couple of foreign Tokyoites who have said that I’m “wasting my time in the inaka” or “I’m missing out.” Heck I had one guy told me that I’m a “lost cause” for preferring inaka life over Tokyo.
I get it though. For most foreigners, a lot of the job opportunities and fun stuff are in Tokyo and other bigger cities. I won’t deny that I do have a lot of fun when I go to Tokyo. But living there and just being there as a short-term visitor is different. I get a lot of “why the inaka?” and it’s annoying when people don’t understand that some people don’t like/don’t care for the city life.
People have been looking down on janitors and garbage men for forever outside japan
if i ever ask about another foreigner’s job it’s out of curiosity to find more possibilities. i absolutely HATE how most people just assume i teach english, then when i say no they ask if it’s IT before i can answer. like no, other jobs exist! lol
It’s generally not about the job itself.
Unfortunately Eikaiwa and ALT jobs, as they require few to no qualifications or experience, are full of the sort of foreigners that come to Japan without knowing any Japanese, complain 24/7 about how hard their lives are, break a bunch of societal rules and perpetuate the “disrespectful gaijin” stereotype, which actively harms other foreigners’ life experience in Japan.
I know many people who work in teaching and many of them started out as ALTs. Some of them are the loveliest, most genuine people I’ve ever met.
But for every genuine, hard-working ALT who puts in effort to integrate into society here, there’s 5 others who are either mentally unstable, or come just because they like anime, or come because they get no attention from women in their home countries or all of the above. They then cause a load of problems before leaving after 3-5 years full of stories about how they were discriminated against, with a trail of destruction and sometimes broken families left behind them.
On the other hand, there are plenty of foreigners in more “traditional” jobs, like office workers in IT or otherwise, who are just as unstable and miserable. In my experience, however, they all seem to be a bit more integrated than the average ALT, simply by merit of most of them actually speaking a modicum of Japanese. A lot of IT workers in Japan don’t even get paid more than ALTs do, despite what they tell you, so it’s really not about how much money people have.
Self-importance. Some people are so miserable that they try to justify their own status by looking down on the lives of others. The reasons why foreigners do this to other foreigners is because it is the easiest for them to compare themselves to, although that in itself is super flawed since lots of foreigners come from very different backgrounds. That’s probably also why N. American foreigners do it often because there is an assumption that they are alike and thus if they are doing something considered “low level” it makes the other person feel they are doing better and by pointing it out puts on a facade of “working hard” or doing something of value with one’s life.
The only foreigners I feel bad for that are eikawa teachers or whatever, are those that feel stuck there and can’t get out. But I’d feel just as bad for a person in any position they feel trapped.
In the end, this is a prime example of a personal problem that becomes externalized and placed on others.
The amount of judgmental people on this subreddit is what I dislike most here. So many people talking down to English teachers.
Classism
I was much happier as an ALT than I ever was in my better-paying job thereafter.
I think it’s easy to underestimate the difficulty of moving to the other side of the world while learning how to adult. Adulting back home is hard enough. ALT + learning how to adult + adjusting to Japan and getting better at Japanese was just the right combination of challenging and manageable for me.
I can imagine that as comfort level rises and all three items get easier, some people get the additional pleasure that comes with mastery of a skill. (And yes, teaching is a skill.) Plus, they may take on the additional challenge of an international marriage, parenthood, and other higher-level adulting tasks as time passes.
I do think the lack of job security and upward mobility is something to think deeply about before making a career out of ALT work. As we age, it can be frustrating not to have many opportunities for leadership, mentorship, and growth, at least for some.
But “dead-end” jobs like this abound here and anywhere, and ALT work can go either way, as with most jobs.
Many of the most satisfied people use all the spare mental energy that dead-end jobs afford them to dive deep into hobbies, work on side projects, devote time to their loved ones, and do community work.
But I can understand why the workaholic types who find value only in career progress would reject the ALT path for themselves and project that dissatisfaction onto others that are happier in the role.
https://imgur.com/a/NCnEpux
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but I think a lot of foreigners who live here are a bit elitist, especially those not working as English teachers. Being an English teacher seems like a stigma because Japan will hire just about anyone to teach English so long as you’re a native speaker or up to the level of a native speaker.
I’m a garbage disposal worker ( mostly pet bottles ) and it’s been the best job I’ve ever done in japan I’m really happy too. Been working for 2 years and I finally saved enough to buy a house in Tokyo. I don’t give a fck what somebody else thinks and not ashamed of my job xD
As another user said, it’s rooted in deep insecurity and dissatisfaction with their own situation. Happy, emotionally secure people generally don’t go out of their way to shit on strangers.
It seems to me like it’s the easiest way to size people up.
Also, it’s been said a few times, but it really feels like white males do it the most. People of color and other nationalities I run into don’t ask as quickly or at all in some cases. If the question comes up within the first 5 minutes of conversation, I break it off right then and there. It clearly indicates that person doesn’t give a shit about who I am at any level beyond superficial. I’m not an NPC in your “story” bro.
Japanese people do it too though. My wife is a dispatch worker for an enormous company and the contract status is indicated by color on their neck straps. Seishain shin sotsu who come for orientation see her color and immediately turn the nose up and ignore her. Even though she was the one who set up the entire orientation and knows where everything is. So who knows.
I personally run on hood rules. Don’t worry about my bread, where it’s from, and don’t even think about inquiring about my pockets. It works for me and I feel like I have better relationships with people because of it.
I really do enjoy people slagging off people who do English teaching for elementary schools, calling them dancing monkeys, amongst other rubbish. Education of children is pretty noble, and just because you hate kids or can’t see yourself dancing around and making kids enjoy themselves because you have crippling self-awareness, doesn’t mean others hate themselves too.
Just ultra weird projected hate, I feel.
This subreddit is extremely toxic.. I tried to ask for advice once, never again…