I had been watching はじめの一歩 “free-flow” for the past few weeks, so only looking a word here and there, when it comes up a lot in one episode and I can’t figure it out from context. It was fairly enjoyable, if not even entertaining, but from what I read about immersion, free-flow seemed to be almost a waste of time since I don’t really acquire any vocabulary? With this in mind, I decided to give intensive immersion a shot.
I booted up Netflix and went with エヴァンゲリオン (yes, I know, probably not the best choice, but Netflix in my country literally has 3 animes with JP subtitles lol) and I’ve mined and watched the 1st episode a few times, but it has seriously become a chore more than anything, I’m not enjoying the process at all, even though I’m learning a good amount of vocabulary thanks to it.
Should I push through and try to find it fun, or should I just bite the bullet and go back to what I enjoy (i.e free-flow), or is it really a waste?
27 comments
How much Japanese have you studied prior to this?
You’ll make a lot more progress doing what motivates you than trying to do what doesn’t motivate you. Personally I’m using manga as my reading, so I don’t feel the need to turn anime into reading practice. For listening I do podcasts and easy anime I’ve seen before without subtitles and just enjoy it.
If you actually hate consuming native content, learning Japanese is going to be a rough ride!
I’m guessing you just need to get used to studying while you watch something, you probably are used to just watching something for pure entertainment value.
Why are you learning Japanese?
How much are you comprehending while watching? IMO, unless you’re an early beginner, you should be ideally consuming content that’s going to give you lots of i + 1 sentences (I think that’s the term), which is sentences with only one unknown word. You should be looking at 90+% coverage of the vocab. Adding up to hundreds of unknown words per 23 minute episode is going to make learning significantly less enjoyable.
Rather than watching one episode multiple times, I’ll occasionally rewatch a show front to back I know I’ll really enjoy. For me that has been Shirokuma cafe, which has been a great show because it’s valuable for beginners as well as intermediate level, and has been useful upon rewatching. If I were to have watched each episode 3 times in a day until I knew it 100%, though, I would’ve grown to despise the show.
> I had been watching はじめの一歩 “free-flow” for the past few weeks, so only looking a word here and there, when it comes up a lot in one episode and I can’t figure it out from context. It was fairly enjoyable, if not even entertaining, but from what I read about immersion, free-flow seemed to be almost a waste of time since I don’t really acquire any vocabulary?
I don’t think this is a waste of time.
* First, you *are* acquiring vocabulary through context, even if it’s not as direct as looking things up in a dictionary. And you are gaining context and reinforcement for vocabulary you already know.
* Second, you are getting lots of repeated exposure to grammar, phrases, sentence structure, etc.
* Third, you are getting listening practice and learning pronunciation from native speakers.
Quantity counts for a lot when it comes to language practice. If you are able to read/watch/listen to native material at full speed, you can get a lot more exposure than if you have to pause every few seconds. You can always focus on vocabulary when doing reading or other types of studying instead.
I’d say do what you enjoy, any immersion is good immersion and any input is good input. Unless you’re watching like Dora while you’re at N1 level or something.
And remember that just because you’re not looking up a ton of new words consciously doesn’t mean you aren’t acquiring them at all subconsciously. Always good to look up words that seem important or common but I can’t say that I’d recommend crawling through something like an anime and looking up every single word.
If you don’t dislike what you’re watching, then I’d venture to say it’s the elevated mental workload and/or constant interruptions to look something up probably. In that case, I’d just push through until I get used to it because the more you know, the easier it gets, etc. Otherwise just dial back the pace a couple notches and work with something simpler.
Doing the same with 賭ケグルイ, it’s helping the fact that I know most of the gambling games, I mean I get 80% of the context just because of that!
I know way less words and grammar than you, but I’ve made lots of gains in free flow. It’s definitely not a waste of time, especially if you like it. You might want to do intensive **on the side** though if you want to learn more vocabulary faster.
Without using VPN you could make a second user on your netflix account and set main language to Japanese, this will unlock more subtitles (atleast it does in my region).
do something motivating and engaging. not all studying can be nothing-but-fun, but you also won’t make any progress if you torture yourself until you quit in frustration. balance in all things. try something new.
Mate, even if you understand 100% of what you’re watching, it’s not a waste of time! Even in terms of learning, you’re solidifying knowledge. The less you hear a word, the more likely you are to forget it!
>Netflix in my country literally has 3 animes with JP subtitles lol
Nefltix has Japanese subtitles for all Japanese content. If you don’t see them, there’s something that you can do in the settings to make them appear, I don’t remember what it was, but it might be as simple as changing Netflix’s language to Japanese.
> Netflix in my country literally has 3 animes with JP subtitles
VPNs FTW (unless they are blocked in your country)
I didn’t enjoy mining from anime either, felt like a massive chore. I ended up doing intensive reading from VN/novels and using anime purely for listening, and it worked out much better
Not saying watching television can’t help you learn but calling it “immersion” to watch a lot of TV shows is a joke. If you go to a place where everyone speaks the language you want to learn and you have to interact with them in that language that’s immersion. You’re watching Netflix. And no I don’t think it’s worth watching television programs in a way that’s boring to you; there are more effective methods of study than that.
Try ditching the mining/rewatching and only looking up vocab as you go, see how you like that. You’ll still learn new vocab and it’ll make it into an actually enjoyable experience. I assume you have something like language reactor installed to be able to look up the subtitle meanings as you go? Makes a big difference
it is really painful, I’ve tried doing this with sailor moon and it was very difficult, but I learnt a ton of stuff, it’s definetely worthy, but I’d recommend doing this with parts of an episode everyday if you feel it’s too intense to watch a full episode
I also don’t have access to a lot of JP subtitled content on Netflix, so I use a method that seems complicated at first but is fine once you get the hang of it. First, I torrent .mkv anime from nyaa.si and download JP subtitles from a website called Kitsunekko. I then play the downloaded anime on a media player called MPV and put the subtitles over it and use an extension to auto copy the subtitles to a website so I can look up certain words and make anki cards with them with the yomichan extension. I’m pretty sure Matt vs Japan uses, or used to use this method so it’s pretty reputable imo. He has guides to this on his channel and setting up yomichan anki connectivity is on the moeway website. I recommend this way of watching because MPV is a really good media player that you can customize to make it really good for immersion and it’s really easy to add new words to anki (with a bunch of fields already filled in) in seconds. Sorry I didn’t link anything and for the bad formatting I’m on mobile right now lol
Hey I’m back with my TRY NON FICTION drum.
That is, pick a hobby or interest, look for short youtube videos about it. Many youtubers also have subtitles.
Nonfiction is way easier. Particularly instruction type setups where someone is explaining how to make/do something. Especially if you already know the topic well in your first language.
You should try watching something you enjoy and previously watched, but in japanese, since you find it enjoying + know what happens/what they’re saying (to an extent) it won’t feel like a chore and you’ll be more motivated to do it
If you are not having fun, you are gonna end up quiting, is better to learn slow than to never learn
If you can’t even figure out things from context; you’re probably not at the level where immersion would do you much good unless you were just using it as motivation or something. You need to build more vocabulary
Free-flow, as you describe it, is definitely not useless, and is imo the best way to practice listening. However, I think you need intensive immersion as well, but I would recommend books for this, as you won’t have to deal with the constant pausing/pain in the ass of looking up vocab in subtitles.
Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the free flow, and intensive immersion?
My advice tho is, to find a way to either combine them, OR, why not do it just ONCE bi weekly? Don’t give up the way you enjoy, just add onto it for some extra process.
Edit: I’ve read some of the comments you’ve made, and what I suggest fully is this.
1: Try animelon, as it is a website that offers both English and Japanese subs at the same time (or one at a time if you prefer), and has an included dictionary on it. For mobile it has a click for translation, for desktop it offers a select your own area option!
2: You seem to be trying to do TOO much mining at once. Don’t do full sentences nonstop, rerun through an area of intrest or two in the episodes you watch, and just pay some extra attention to sentences with only a 1-2 words you don’t know. Listen to em say it a few times, and repeat them a time or two and move on. Just never do it so much it bores you.
Op, I’m doing 2 kinds of anime watching if that’s any help.
For active immersion / anki mining, I choose simpler anime like Yuru Camp or Shirokuma cafe. I only do it once a week because it’s freaking tedious. I spend an hour or two mining one episode and call it a day. The rest of the week I will watch with japanese subtitles just for entertainment value but not mining.
I have many seasonal anime that I follow and those are of varying difficulty. So I just watch them with english subtitles for enjoyment but practice active listening. I try not to read the subtitles and only glance if I can’t understand what I hear.