HomeLearn JapaneseI understand most of the Japanese I read with context clues, I don’t recognize or recall the Kanji but I know it’s meaning based on the phrase, and the hiragana. I feel like this is inefficient and a bad habit. I’d appreciate some advice
I understand most of the Japanese I read with context clues, I don’t recognize or recall the Kanji but I know it’s meaning based on the phrase, and the hiragana. I feel like this is inefficient and a bad habit. I’d appreciate some advice
This is fine, it’s how children learn to read. They use the words they do know to figure out the words they don’t and to understand the meaning of whatever they’re reading. Just be sure to review the kanji you’re unsure about between reading so you become more familiar with that kanji and it’s meaning(s)
If you want to focus on recognizing individual kanji I would recommend learning to draw them (that forces you to memorize them thoroughly) but honestly it’s probably not really necessary. The more you’ll read the better you’ll get at it regardless.
That’s not a bad habit, that’s actually learning a language and how it’s used. You’re doing excellent.
Just remember to memorize some new kanji now and then.
Just keep at it bro. Your brain is gonna slowly but surely pick everything that is hazy in your mind with time.
Like, I don’t remember having to learn any of the words I’m using in this comment but somehow I know what every one of them means and even nuance on how to use them in different and unexpected ways. I never studied English in my life. It’s the same with Japanese. It could be faster even since you’re studying and looking stuff up and everything.
Do you mean like you are recalling the kanji only from the context of the sentence or furigana? As others have said, you should be totally fine. But if it’s the first, as was my case, I found the solution to be to create a separate Anki deck for isolated kanji vocab, as I was only recalling the kanji in my i+1 deck because I knew the rest of the sentence already. This let me remember the vocab in isolation as well as in context. It also made it painfully clear how much I was just memorizing it from the sentence, as kanji I was sure I knew became unknown again when I saw them without the surrounding sentence.
This is actually a very important skill you are using and developing. If you want to rely on it less, just know all the words, aka do more Anki.
Sounds like you’re on the right path, keep at it. The more dots you connect the better your understanding. Also, why did you put most of your message in the post title?
As long as you’re making an active effort to then go back and *learn* the kanji whether it’s how to correctly read it, or it’s specific meaning in it’s context, then you are learning the language organically as how youths would learn it otherwise.
Keep up the good work! I would even say, this would be the best way to learn it into long term memory as well
It’s actually a good habit. You’ll never be able to learn ALL the kanji, but if you can get the word’s meaning from context you’re good to go
That’s how you read in English too. There are even literacy tests that you regularly take in school where they test to see if you can figure out the meaning of a word from context.
Speaking as someone who has been taking this approach more while learning and is now currently in Japan, I can say that I agree with others that this approach is how children learn kanji, and words, and there is nothing wrong with it.
In my opinion, kanji is very context-dependent, as okurigana rules are not always the most commonly used ways of spelling certain things. For example, if you see a sign that says 立入禁止, you may be forgiven for assuming it says りつにゅうきんし. However, after I learn that 立入 is 立ち入り, then maybe I repeat it to myself in my head or out loud, then I repeat it quietly when I see the sign later.
When I see 禁 later in signs like 禁煙 (next to 🚭), I know that 禁 probably means forbidden, and so 煙 probably means smoking. Reading is reinforcement.
If it makes you feel better, there are a few times with native Japanese speakers on this trip alone that I ask how to read some new word they’ve never seen before, and even they also don’t know.
Native Japanese speakers generally don’t catalog each kanji with their 音読み and 訓読み in their brains; they rely heavily on sight words and the vocabulary they know. I asked a Japanese guy once what the 音読み of 林 was, and he struggled without context. However, had I shown him the word 林檎, he’d probably be able to tell me the first kanji says りん.
Edit: One last anecdote. One of the geographical landmarks my family and I were near was a place called 栃木. I asked them if this place was called とちぎ, more so wanting to know if I was correct in reading the first kanji as とち. They said something to the effect of, oh, you’re forgiven for thinking that, but this place is actually とちのき. So, context is really important, because this Tochinoki and the prefecture of Tochigi, while written the same way, are pronounced differently in their different geographical contexts.
Long story short: you’re probably going about it the right way. Just remember that no one knows every kanji ever, just as no one knows every word ever. In my opinion, as is the case with English, learning sight words in tandem with learning “phonics” (in this case, the 音読み and 訓読み) is probably the best way to go, keeping on open mind that readings may change contextually.
Do you mean you don’t recognise most of the kanji you read?
When I was in school we called this the “teapot” method. When you come across a word you don’t know, replace it with another word like teapot that doesn’t make sense. Then by the end of the sentence you’ll probably figure out what it might mean.
I am the opposite, many times I have no idea what’s written but I can get some meaning clue based on the kanji because it’s a compound word of kanjis I already know or it has a very meaningful radical like 心 or 門
What is the view on people who come in with pre-existing kanji knowledge because of hanzi? I find myself knowing the words but having a poor time remembering how to read them. In Anki I frequently fail cards due to not remembering the reading rather than the meaning. It’s like the chinese reading interferes with my memory and the japanese reading doesn’t stick.
It’s a natural part of all learning (not only language learning).
If you continue to study Japanese and get to an advanced level, and then come back to things you studied at the beginning, you will be surprised how differently you perceive things. Why? Because, at the beginning, you are *projecting* meaning onto things. You are guessing at meanings (either consciously or subconsciously).
It is unavoidable. But you should be aware of it.
Hey I’m a month into learning and this is how I am studying as well. But could you tell me what you’re reading because I’m having difficulty finding books that I can read? Currently I’m going through the first level 0 book on learnnatively.com
Highly recommend wanikani, if you’ve already got that intuitive knowledge of a lot of kanji you’ll find it a bit easier too.
I’ve started learning Japanese with Busuu and documenting it on YouTube. Wish me luck! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Lks1Q4XZM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Lks1Q4XZM)
18 comments
This is fine, it’s how children learn to read. They use the words they do know to figure out the words they don’t and to understand the meaning of whatever they’re reading. Just be sure to review the kanji you’re unsure about between reading so you become more familiar with that kanji and it’s meaning(s)
If you want to focus on recognizing individual kanji I would recommend learning to draw them (that forces you to memorize them thoroughly) but honestly it’s probably not really necessary. The more you’ll read the better you’ll get at it regardless.
That’s not a bad habit, that’s actually learning a language and how it’s used. You’re doing excellent.
Just remember to memorize some new kanji now and then.
Just keep at it bro. Your brain is gonna slowly but surely pick everything that is hazy in your mind with time.
Like, I don’t remember having to learn any of the words I’m using in this comment but somehow I know what every one of them means and even nuance on how to use them in different and unexpected ways. I never studied English in my life. It’s the same with Japanese. It could be faster even since you’re studying and looking stuff up and everything.
Do you mean like you are recalling the kanji only from the context of the sentence or furigana? As others have said, you should be totally fine. But if it’s the first, as was my case, I found the solution to be to create a separate Anki deck for isolated kanji vocab, as I was only recalling the kanji in my i+1 deck because I knew the rest of the sentence already. This let me remember the vocab in isolation as well as in context. It also made it painfully clear how much I was just memorizing it from the sentence, as kanji I was sure I knew became unknown again when I saw them without the surrounding sentence.
This is actually a very important skill you are using and developing. If you want to rely on it less, just know all the words, aka do more Anki.
Sounds like you’re on the right path, keep at it. The more dots you connect the better your understanding. Also, why did you put most of your message in the post title?
As long as you’re making an active effort to then go back and *learn* the kanji whether it’s how to correctly read it, or it’s specific meaning in it’s context, then you are learning the language organically as how youths would learn it otherwise.
Keep up the good work! I would even say, this would be the best way to learn it into long term memory as well
It’s actually a good habit. You’ll never be able to learn ALL the kanji, but if you can get the word’s meaning from context you’re good to go
That’s how you read in English too. There are even literacy tests that you regularly take in school where they test to see if you can figure out the meaning of a word from context.
Speaking as someone who has been taking this approach more while learning and is now currently in Japan, I can say that I agree with others that this approach is how children learn kanji, and words, and there is nothing wrong with it.
In my opinion, kanji is very context-dependent, as okurigana rules are not always the most commonly used ways of spelling certain things. For example, if you see a sign that says 立入禁止, you may be forgiven for assuming it says りつにゅうきんし. However, after I learn that 立入 is 立ち入り, then maybe I repeat it to myself in my head or out loud, then I repeat it quietly when I see the sign later.
When I see 禁 later in signs like 禁煙 (next to 🚭), I know that 禁 probably means forbidden, and so 煙 probably means smoking. Reading is reinforcement.
If it makes you feel better, there are a few times with native Japanese speakers on this trip alone that I ask how to read some new word they’ve never seen before, and even they also don’t know.
Native Japanese speakers generally don’t catalog each kanji with their 音読み and 訓読み in their brains; they rely heavily on sight words and the vocabulary they know. I asked a Japanese guy once what the 音読み of 林 was, and he struggled without context. However, had I shown him the word 林檎, he’d probably be able to tell me the first kanji says りん.
Edit: One last anecdote. One of the geographical landmarks my family and I were near was a place called 栃木. I asked them if this place was called とちぎ, more so wanting to know if I was correct in reading the first kanji as とち. They said something to the effect of, oh, you’re forgiven for thinking that, but this place is actually とちのき. So, context is really important, because this Tochinoki and the prefecture of Tochigi, while written the same way, are pronounced differently in their different geographical contexts.
Long story short: you’re probably going about it the right way. Just remember that no one knows every kanji ever, just as no one knows every word ever. In my opinion, as is the case with English, learning sight words in tandem with learning “phonics” (in this case, the 音読み and 訓読み) is probably the best way to go, keeping on open mind that readings may change contextually.
Do you mean you don’t recognise most of the kanji you read?
When I was in school we called this the “teapot” method. When you come across a word you don’t know, replace it with another word like teapot that doesn’t make sense. Then by the end of the sentence you’ll probably figure out what it might mean.
I am the opposite, many times I have no idea what’s written but I can get some meaning clue based on the kanji because it’s a compound word of kanjis I already know or it has a very meaningful radical like 心 or 門
What is the view on people who come in with pre-existing kanji knowledge because of hanzi? I find myself knowing the words but having a poor time remembering how to read them. In Anki I frequently fail cards due to not remembering the reading rather than the meaning. It’s like the chinese reading interferes with my memory and the japanese reading doesn’t stick.
It’s a natural part of all learning (not only language learning).
If you continue to study Japanese and get to an advanced level, and then come back to things you studied at the beginning, you will be surprised how differently you perceive things. Why? Because, at the beginning, you are *projecting* meaning onto things. You are guessing at meanings (either consciously or subconsciously).
It is unavoidable. But you should be aware of it.
Hey I’m a month into learning and this is how I am studying as well. But could you tell me what you’re reading because I’m having difficulty finding books that I can read? Currently I’m going through the first level 0 book on learnnatively.com
Highly recommend wanikani, if you’ve already got that intuitive knowledge of a lot of kanji you’ll find it a bit easier too.