I’ve been attending online classes. It was great last year but struggling with the teaching style this year so thinking about doing self-directed learning. Unfortunately we only visit Japan a few weeks a year so immersion is not an option.
I got to B2/C1 level after 4 years self study + not going to Japan. Would say I was conversional after about 2 years
if the questions people ask here are any indication, further than with textbooks and duolingo. dont believe me? sort by new and see the thread below yours.
> we only visit Japan a few weeks a year so immersion is not an option
dont worry, actually being in japan doesnt help that much. plenty of people live there 10-20 years and can only say a few words. if you really wanna use japanese, youre gonna find a way. thanks to the internet, you can do this without even leaving your room.
You don’t need classes or teachers. Some people learn better with them, but they are not inherently necessary.
Never took any classes and studied on my own since day 1. Got my N1 and now live in Japan.
Edit:
>Unfortunately we only visit Japan a few weeks a year so immersion is not an option.
Not remotely necessary. Now it makes finding speaking partners or similar easier, but it works without as well. A lot of people (me included) just rely on getting tons of input through reading and listening (which some people also call immersion). It does not completely replace speaking, as once you do start speaking you will need a bit to get used to it, but it will get you to an extremely high level when it comes to your understanding of the language. My first time speaking for any prolonged amount of time was when I arrived here.
Look into either textbooks or immersion if you plan to self study. Look into Genki or go to https://learnjapanese.moe/.
You can get very far with self study. There are entire communities dedicated to this. I know a few people who conquered the jlpt N1 by reading visual novels.
I started with physical class back in the day, but I did the rest myself because I decided to be a translator. Passed N2 five years ago, but I’m only studying for the N1 now after some… personal issues compounded by Bad Mental Health and COVID. I also went to Japan in March this year and I had no problem navigating signage, conversations, etc., which I feel is the “real” indicator to show you’ve made it.
The important thing here is your own study habits. I would say that the guidance of a teacher will certainly help, but if you are not motivated, a teacher won’t be that helpful either. There are people who self-studied all the way to fluency and speak better Japanese than most L2 speakers. So it is certainly possible to do it without a teacher, but it will certainly require more time and discipline than regular guided lessons.
i’ve not had any formal classes, but mainly studied with textbooks and passed the N2 in about 2 years of self-directed learning. i started doing online conversations a few months into my learning journey and, even though my speaking is definitely not at the level my reading/listening is at, i manage to hold conversations when giving tours to japanese students around my university campus semi-regularly.
so to answer your question: it’s really up to the individual learner. set short-term realistic goals for yourself, learn at your own pace, and eventually you can get pretty far.
A lot of people here have their certification. WOW.
I don’t. But I am up to the point where I can play most Nintendo games with relative ease. I’m playing through Tears of the Kingdom in Japanese right now. The only hurdle for me now is generally vocabulary. Some games have more words than others that I need to look up
Likewise I watch TV shows in Japanese. Some I can follow along with no issue.
I’m not only completely self-taught. But self-taught on only free resources.
What the people here say is true though, things like apps will only get you so far. I outgrew Duolingo many years ago, but media was still too hard at the time so I kept retreating back. Eventually I just bit the bullet and started picking apart media no matter how slow and uncomfortable.
Immersion is possible even without going to the country. My phone, netflix, pandora station, Nintendo switch, and several books are all in Japanese in an attempt to keep me touching the language at some point during the day.
Ofc the phone thing doesn’t generally work out for people, but I took the time to look up a lot of the words I was seeing, as opposed to mindlessly using my social media via muscle memory. I used to be very on-again-off-again with it, but now my phone has been in Japanese for over 3 years.
As far as you push yourself
I think the thing with a school is your expected to show up and more than likely you do so your creating an atmosphere of consistent behavior. When people fail self studying is probably due to lack of consistency – distractions, lack of self accountability, no mentorship or camaraderie with classmates.
I struggle in both settings actually, so this is just my two cents. 🤷♂️
Started learning in 2014. It’s a never ending black hole once you can start reading actually interesting content. I ran into some very poignant poetry along the way, and now I enjoy 20th century waka as a past time. By far the most annoying part of Japanese is the lack of consistency in readings (due to the importation of Chinese words over various eras). This is coming from somebody with literacy in Chinese who happens to speak two of the languages (one which also preserves aspects on Middle Chinese which is closer to the onyomi of a lot of words). Also they will sometimes just slap a Japanese word on to Chinese characters. You sometimes just have to know stuff. Like for example 所謂 and 悪戯 are impossible to guess the readings of. I also found grammar hard and if you get into early or middle Japanese that’s a whole new set of knowledge you need to have.
You have to remember that N1 is only the beginning. It’s about the literacy level of a 15 year old in Japan. Which is actually not bad.
11 comments
I got to B2/C1 level after 4 years self study + not going to Japan. Would say I was conversional after about 2 years
if the questions people ask here are any indication, further than with textbooks and duolingo. dont believe me? sort by new and see the thread below yours.
> we only visit Japan a few weeks a year so immersion is not an option
dont worry, actually being in japan doesnt help that much. plenty of people live there 10-20 years and can only say a few words. if you really wanna use japanese, youre gonna find a way. thanks to the internet, you can do this without even leaving your room.
You don’t need classes or teachers. Some people learn better with them, but they are not inherently necessary.
Never took any classes and studied on my own since day 1. Got my N1 and now live in Japan.
Edit:
>Unfortunately we only visit Japan a few weeks a year so immersion is not an option.
Not remotely necessary. Now it makes finding speaking partners or similar easier, but it works without as well. A lot of people (me included) just rely on getting tons of input through reading and listening (which some people also call immersion). It does not completely replace speaking, as once you do start speaking you will need a bit to get used to it, but it will get you to an extremely high level when it comes to your understanding of the language. My first time speaking for any prolonged amount of time was when I arrived here.
Look into either textbooks or immersion if you plan to self study. Look into Genki or go to https://learnjapanese.moe/.
You can get very far with self study. There are entire communities dedicated to this. I know a few people who conquered the jlpt N1 by reading visual novels.
I started with physical class back in the day, but I did the rest myself because I decided to be a translator. Passed N2 five years ago, but I’m only studying for the N1 now after some… personal issues compounded by Bad Mental Health and COVID. I also went to Japan in March this year and I had no problem navigating signage, conversations, etc., which I feel is the “real” indicator to show you’ve made it.
The important thing here is your own study habits. I would say that the guidance of a teacher will certainly help, but if you are not motivated, a teacher won’t be that helpful either. There are people who self-studied all the way to fluency and speak better Japanese than most L2 speakers. So it is certainly possible to do it without a teacher, but it will certainly require more time and discipline than regular guided lessons.
i’ve not had any formal classes, but mainly studied with textbooks and passed the N2 in about 2 years of self-directed learning. i started doing online conversations a few months into my learning journey and, even though my speaking is definitely not at the level my reading/listening is at, i manage to hold conversations when giving tours to japanese students around my university campus semi-regularly.
so to answer your question: it’s really up to the individual learner. set short-term realistic goals for yourself, learn at your own pace, and eventually you can get pretty far.
A lot of people here have their certification. WOW.
I don’t. But I am up to the point where I can play most Nintendo games with relative ease. I’m playing through Tears of the Kingdom in Japanese right now. The only hurdle for me now is generally vocabulary. Some games have more words than others that I need to look up
Likewise I watch TV shows in Japanese. Some I can follow along with no issue.
I’m not only completely self-taught. But self-taught on only free resources.
What the people here say is true though, things like apps will only get you so far. I outgrew Duolingo many years ago, but media was still too hard at the time so I kept retreating back. Eventually I just bit the bullet and started picking apart media no matter how slow and uncomfortable.
Immersion is possible even without going to the country. My phone, netflix, pandora station, Nintendo switch, and several books are all in Japanese in an attempt to keep me touching the language at some point during the day.
Ofc the phone thing doesn’t generally work out for people, but I took the time to look up a lot of the words I was seeing, as opposed to mindlessly using my social media via muscle memory. I used to be very on-again-off-again with it, but now my phone has been in Japanese for over 3 years.
As far as you push yourself
I think the thing with a school is your expected to show up and more than likely you do so your creating an atmosphere of consistent behavior. When people fail self studying is probably due to lack of consistency – distractions, lack of self accountability, no mentorship or camaraderie with classmates.
I struggle in both settings actually, so this is just my two cents. 🤷♂️
Started learning in 2014. It’s a never ending black hole once you can start reading actually interesting content. I ran into some very poignant poetry along the way, and now I enjoy 20th century waka as a past time.
By far the most annoying part of Japanese is the lack of consistency in readings (due to the importation of Chinese words over various eras). This is coming from somebody with literacy in Chinese who happens to speak two of the languages (one which also preserves aspects on Middle Chinese which is closer to the onyomi of a lot of words). Also they will sometimes just slap a Japanese word on to Chinese characters. You sometimes just have to know stuff. Like for example 所謂 and 悪戯 are impossible to guess the readings of. I also found grammar hard and if you get into early or middle Japanese that’s a whole new set of knowledge you need to have.
You have to remember that N1 is only the beginning. It’s about the literacy level of a 15 year old in Japan. Which is actually not bad.