i just want to share this because i have nowhere to share and was wondering if anyone ever had the same experience.
so in our company (branch office), there used to be only two foreign employees (including me) before. but now, we have about 5 foreign employees, where two of them actually came to japan for the first time for this job (they entered the company april 2023). so this is their first time living in this country and of course they would encounter lots of culture shocks, things they don’t understand and other stuffs like that. their japanese level is about N3.
my company has been very open and welcoming towards foreign employees. all the japanese employees and bosses are so kind, overall it’s just a great company tbh. and towards these two new foreign employees that had never visited japan before, they’re like “oh you can rely on us about anything! if you don’t understand something, just ask us!”
im working as their HR staff so ofc im in charge in handling these two new foreign employees since im also a foreigner myself, im in charge along with a japanese staff from the general affair department. so in total, us two handling these two new foreign employees.
we literally are always following up with everything they do. like, taking them to buy futon and other necessary items in nitori, foods from supermarket when they just arrived, signing contracts for their apartments, making them the bank accounts, etc etc. literally everything we can do to help, we do it.
but the problem is now, they are relying on us too much. like, they would be sending line messages at 1am or during weekend asking “how to use the vacuum cleaner?” “what to do with 不在票” “how to make SIM card/debit card in japan” “what is mynumber card” and other stuffs that you can easily google by yourself. and honestly? and im quoting my japanese coworker here (the one who worked in general affair dept.) “頼りすぎてキツイよね” but we can’t say it directly to them because we want them to feel welcomed and stay in our company. they will also go up to me for things (since my japanese level is at N1 and ive been living in japan for 7 years now), but they literally will ask those kind of questions *every single day*. i honestly don’t know if they just don’t understand how to use google or it’s easier for them to ask us immediately about things. but to receive line message like at 1am about these things, it’s a little bit annoying and tiring even to us after all.
do you guys have similar キツイ experience in handling fellow foreign employees in your company or stuffs? sorry if i made any mistake, english is not my first language.
edit1: typos
edit2: to add more context… they are 24 and 27 years old. they don’t work in same department with me, they’re still in their 3 months training period right now before actually got into their real 配属先. and this is the first time my company hired people that can barely speak any japanese at all (these two even sometimes still struggle to write in hiragana/katakana). and this is also the first time my company actually follow up into everything when an employee needs help. it probably has something to do with the fact that they came to japan for the first time, therefore my company wants to make sure that they’re liking their stay in japan. idk why.
edit3: thought i will clarify some things. the numbers that i wrote here (like ages and stuff) are not the exact number, i just wrote a number that is close to the real situation so that people understand a bit more about the situation. and for those asking, we already handed them bunch of guidebooks how to live in japan when they first came. we are still helping them no matter what, it’s just a little weak “キツイよね” moment for us since we constantly get bombarded with questions every day and i think we all deserve that weak moment once in awhile. but yeah, like you all said, responding to texts outside business hours is our fault since we didn’t set any boundaries at all. and yes it is a little bit unprofessional for me to post this on reddit, but i just wanted to share my experience, that’s all. im posting this post because i was just wondering if any of you had similar experience or not, but thank you for all the replies and suggestions!
47 comments
So you’ve become the walking embodiment of r/japanlife?
You need to set boundaries.
Take them aside and ask them how they would feel if the positions were reversed. Would they enjoy having someone asking them questions at 1 in the morning.
I know your company wants them to feel welcomed.
But they are adults and the internet is free and even the google camera translation is serviceable nowadays.
Maybe take them aside one day and *show* them that they can do these things under the guise of it being faster than waiting for help.
And the city should have resources for foreigners, maybe even a support program. Then they can reach out there instead of to you.
Not in your exact situation but in my experience, this is how I’d handle it
I’d do this for a while for the junior employees and then after a certain point I’d start asking them:
– how did you handle it before?
– how did you find out before?
– what worked last time?
– ok have you tried that?
Took a while with some but eventually they’d only come to me for the bigger or more confusing stuff.
I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible because I know this sounds condescending and mean to a lot of people who won’t respond well to it (Particularly young Americans I’ve often found)
There are some who get very upset (and really rude) at this. I position that I want them to be able to handle themselves and I think they’re capable of doing so (Which I do). I empathise that moving to a different work environment is hard (Harder in a country sense too) but my interest is in their peace of mind and success – which I want them to get it independent of me. I genuinely want this so it’s believable for them particularly if I make it clear, it’s less a judgement thing and more a survival / peace of mind thing which is something I value as well.
This often does the trick but not always. I’m still working on it
I would suggest creating a wiki/website and/or manual for newcomers covering commonly asked questions. Also, show them how to use Google Translate.
Don’t reply to those massages at 1AM and talk to them the next day during the business hour.
You should teach them how to google and other stuff instead of directly answering the questions. I feel you, but this is like May and i still feel they need time to adjust though. It’s better to give them tools instead of solving their problems.
Don’t answer any texts from them outside of business hours.
Must be IT dudes as I know few other industries that would coddle to this extent. You hired a few fresh off the boat foreigners with no sense of community already existing in the company. This is mix for you needing to set boundaries for communication and instilling the necessary to get them started.
“Teach a man to fish..” comes to mind. If since day1 you’ve been giving them a fish then I would have never learnt how to exist in this new world called japan. I’m however confused how someone can have N3 and not go to the supermarket tho…
how old are they? my wifes work has a lot of young foreigners and they don’t seem to be able to google stuff at all
>taking them to buy futon and other necessary items in nitori, foods from supermarket when they just arrived, signing contracts for their apartments, making them the bank accounts, etc etc
Apartments and bank makes sense, those are quite complicated and may not necessarily be the same where they are from… I definitely asked HR for help with these when I came here, but why are you chaperoning their shopping!? These are adults, right? It’s very kind of you, but if they intend to live in a foreign country they need to understand how to shop for themselves and be independent. I assume it’s 新卒hire since they seem kind of helpless…?
Whenever they ask you something minor, only respond during business hours (you work with them but are not their friend, I don’t think?), and need to make a point of asking them if they tried googling it. You can even frame it like it’s for their benefit, “you know you could get a much faster answer this way…”
One thing that helped me when I came is that HR had what was basically a FAQ printed out of common moving tasks (setting up utilities, trash disposal, etc) so I had an easy reference. If you intend to bring over more foreign employees this could help in the long run, and also does NOT set the precedents of babying them/them asking you every small thing.
edit: 24 and 27?!? Was mommy at their beck and call until they left the house? This doesn’t seem like bad *foreigner* behavior, it’s more them being incapable of being self sufficient (at least, if this doesn’t improve). I hope this doesn’t reflect on their actual job performance, and it seems like it could be caught on future interviews if you ask the right questions.
Why does your company have such low standards? It’s always crazy for me to see things like this when I struggle to get jobs I’m overqualified for…probably because I’m an older woman.
I recommend not being up at 1am, and in case you’re being awoken at 1am: why isn’t your phone in Do Not Disturb mode?
Or I guess you don’t want to see their messages first thing in the morning? In that case, tell them to only reach out during business hours unless their house is burning down.
Not employees, but international students (22~28) and I’m having similar questions. How to use to vacuum cleaner was definitely one, and how to use the washing machine was another. Yesterday I got a text asking where to buy deodorant. The peak was a photo of an izakaya menu begging for a translation since there were no pictures of the food. I FEEL YOU, OP.
I helped for the first few days, then I just started asking them: “what did you find on google when you searched”. It seems to have dissuaded them slightly so I don’t get daily requests, but still maybe receive the odd question once or twice a week. I don’t think this is a lack of Japanese skill or even laziness, though; it’s deeper, like a lack of general “adult skills”.
Since they texted you, I assume they have a smart phone? Why not teach them how to use Google translate’s picture taking ability? If they have an Android phone, they can use Google Lens which is even better for translating Japanese. I use it all the time. Also, what other people said, tell them your boundaries.
Struggling to write hiragana/katakana doesn’t sound like N3.
Just thank them for asking questions during the orientation period, but now that this period has officially come to an end, you are unable to answer any further questions related to non-work activities.
Let me guess: fresh off the boat Indian dudes who used to have their mother do everything for them.
>like, they would be sending line messages at 1am or during weekend asking “how to use the vacuum cleaner?” “what to do with 不在票” “how to make SIM card/debit card in japan” “what is mynumber card” and other stuffs that you can easily google by yourself.
This is why you should always think twice about handing out your personal contact details to coworkers.
>their japanese level is about N3.
>and this is the first time my company hired people that can barely speak any japanese at all (these two even sometimes still struggle to write in hiragana/katakana).
In other words, not even N5. Might be a good idea for your company to have them take Japanese classes.
It seems that they are on their 3-month probationary period. I say do your best to get them mostly self-sufficient and if they still aren’t by the time they’re nearing the end of their training, then they did not make the cut for the job.
They are grown adults and you aren’t a baby sitter.
I think it’s more than being a foreigner, these seems like adults who are Actually Adulting For The First Time. In their home country they might have people taking care of all their life needs, like their parents, or their partner, and they are not used to do these little administrative tasks themselves. You need to communicate to them what is ok to ask or not, and teach them to be more independent re: using google to search for things, using google translate for simple stuff, etc. Give them the tools to navigate life in Japan (or anywhere else really). Be kind but firm. It sucks to have to parent them but that’ll save you headache in the long run. Also, don’t immediately reply for messages at midnight. That’s just being unreasonable.
Wow.
I came in on an eikaiwa back in 1990, and they took me to the bank to help set up an account, took me to my apartment to settle in, and that was it.
Everything else was left to me to figure out. Someone might say, “you should try this video rental store”, but that was it. And this was pre-internet.
That was half the fun of coming here in the first place. Buying chocolate milk (?), and taking a sip of cafe au lait (I despise coffee!). Can’t tell you how many times I got lost or took a train in the wrong direction. I did have a very hungry first weekend when the ATMs closed at 3pm and didn’t open again until Monday morning.
OP, you of course don’t need/want to be rude, but maybe tell them you can’t continue to be available 24/7. If it is work related, no problem.
In other cases, rather than give them the answer, tell them who they can ask or where they can get the answer, whether that be at town/ward offices, post office, etc.
“signing contracts for their apartments, making them the bank accounts”
This is hardly unexpected for HR dealing with people new to Japan. Google Translate isn’t going to help you much with either of these things and yet they’re necessary for new employees.
“foods from supermarket when they just arrived”
When they just arrived? Not exactly expected, but not horrible for a new arrival to the country to ask for help with.
“taking them to buy futon and other necessary items in nitori”
Unless the office is in the middle of nowhere, this is something they can handle entirely on their own. Once they have their phones, show them Google Lens and ask them to only contact you if it’s something that can’t be answered by using that and is time-sensitive and work-related.
The MyNumber card isn’t… required for anything that I know of, so stuff it. The setting up of the phone? I could see that, again, depending on where you are. If there are no English-speaking staff, your company should give you some time during the day to bugger off and get that done. It’s likely required for all too many things lately.
If your company will hire more employees like this, you should create a handbook. Let this experience guide its creation. It should contain things like what you can ask HR for, what to expect from them, where you can get other resources.
In the meantime, time to start weaning off these new employees. If they’re still in their initial three-month training period, it should be pretty easy because I don’t think they’ve had time to cement expectations.
When I started working in Japan, my company did much the same thing as you’re doing now. They even took us shopping on the first day for futons and such.
As a 23-year-old American, I could still use Google though.
What might help, something one of my senpai does with me sometimes, is if they ask you a question, just tell them what term to Google. “What’s xxx?” “Oh if you Google xxx, you should find it.”
Sometimes, the search term is different than what I initially thought, sometimes it’s the exact same thing.
And just stop responding to messages in the middle of the night. Respond to messages at your own pace.
I notice younger people assume everyone puts their phone on “do not disturb” when they go to bed and assumes people will check messages left overnight at their leisure.
Older people treat it like a phone call that needs immediate attention.
This leads to a lot of friction.
Some cultures believe that everyone is in a hierarchy and if you are polite to them, they misinterpret this by assuming you’re being their servant. Their intrinsic instinct is to become superior to as many people as possible. They likely have indentured servants back home which is why they can’t do anything by themselves. Just write to them that you hope now they can make an effort from here to work out matters for themselves in Japan. Gambatte! They'[ll get the message.
I think the problem was you coddled them too much when they first got here and now that’s their expectation as being normal moving forward. I wouldn’t cut them off cold turkey, but I would definitely slowly reduce their reliance on you from now on.
Things you can do:
* Do not answer emails outside of your work hours. Maybe it’s a part of your job to help them, so help them while you’re getting paid.
* Don’t take them anywhere personally. If they need, say, a 住民票 or something similar, give them basic instructions or a web link and tell them to get it themselves.
* If they ask you something directly and it’s not something you feel like fully explaining, tell them you’ll send more info later when you have free time.
You’ll be working with these people moving forward, so I wouldn’t go so far as alienating or antagonizing them, even if it’s in a friendly way. Be friendly, and be helpful, but only be those things when you actually have the time and will to do it. These two a grown ass adults and you are not their parent.
You do need to set some boundaries. OTOH, with regard to your attitude (and by you I mean you and your company)…***you*** **need** ***them***.
This is the thing that irritates me in Japan. For all the talk of relationships, the attitude is awfully transactional. This is a different culture with a very different language and a somewhat rigid, highly rules-based culture. It isn’t intuitive.
So…since you need them…you are going to have to figure out a way to set boundaries, but also **enable them** to successfully transition into work and life here. And that is your job because you are HR.
I like the suggestion above wrt a wiki page and another wrt a manual. You can also use a mentoring system, maybe pairing them with a bilingual. Your other option is to simply only hire people that are bilingual and have some experience with Japan, but I am guessing you either can’t or won’t because of your budget.
TL;DR – I get it but it is up to you to solve it. Your attitude is a bit one-sided.
Create Reddit accounts for them and sub them to /r/japanlife
A lot of people are judging harshly, IMHO. If your company has set expectations that you’re here to help with daily life stuff, you can hardly fault people who want to use the resource you’ve implicitly offered.
Now of course, boundaries must be set. Calls for help with non-emergency things in the middle of the night are unacceptable. It sounds like what you need is to revise their expectations by clarifying what you’re willing to offer as a company, what you’re willing to offer as a fellow immigrant who remembers what it’s like to be in Japan where even simple tasks are often done very differently from back home, and what you’re willing offer as friend (if applicable). If you frame it the way the internet peanut gallery is talking (“these people are helpless idiots!”) then obviously you won’t inspire your team, but surely there is a way to frame this that you are teaching them some self-sufficiency.
Just remember that a lot of times, requests for help aren’t always about what they ask on the surface. I remember when I started here, a lot of my requests for help weren’t actually “I am incapable of researching how to do this!”, they were really in the subtext more like, “I am alone in a new place so I want to share my struggle with someone else because I am a social creature who has just lost the support net I’m used to.” Maybe you don’t need to be these people’s new social network, but the best way to help wean them off of you if you’ve implicitly offered to be it is to help them build their own social network.
Have been on the other side. My company was really nice and had my housing almost furnished with all new materials. Sometimes, my 社長、came to my home all of a sudden during the first week of my stay and taught me how to use the rice cooker and what the options for the AC remote meant. Admittedly, I did have to make multiple calls regarding the washing machine options.
I guess I figured out the fundamentals of staying in Japan in about the first 10 days.
Yes, things like a Sim card and internet connection were an issue. People from my company started recommending me options that were foreigners friendly or with English support. I did my own research and found cheaper options were always different (Eg. LINEMO for a sim card).
My suggestion would be to “If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. **If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.**” Perhaps, teach him how he can search online. Google Translate and extensions on the browser option as well.
its “teach a man to catch a fish” moment. Welcoming phase should be over by now. Someone should be able to buy what they have to buy from a supermarket or a home center after 2 months. One wont notice if they are stepping over the line unless they get a warning. They’ll just push a little further each time. Just a human nature + laziness.
You have got to have boundaries. Only reply during a work hours. If your company provides a cellphone for work turn it off outside working hours.
Yeah, ask Reddit that will do.
You’re a HR person responsible handling humans, and you’ve come to reddit to ask for advice on how to handle humans.
Set the boundaries as you deem necessary, you are HR.
You are also releasing a lot of information that makes it very easy for your new employees to identify your reddit account. They are English speakers and they are new in Japan, what makes you think they are not subscribed to this subreddit?
Here is all the information I gleaned from your post:
– 2 new employees joined April 2023
– 5 foreign employee total
– Foreign person in HR that is assigned to them, along with Japanese person from 総務
– One employee sent a LINE message to foreigner in HR at 1am
– Asked about vacuum
– Asked about 不在票
– Asked about SIM cards, debit cards
– Asked about MyNumber card
– One is 24 years old
– The other is 27 years old
If I was one of these new employees, I would know this post is about me and know exactly who you are.
Ask your manager for some training, because you need it.
Maybe you can let them know that you can only answer during business hours unless it’s an emergency. As well if you expect more new employees to come, would it be helpful for your company to put all this information eg where to buy x, how to do y into a guide for new foreign employees so maybe you need to repeat yourself less?
lol just introduce them to this sub. This is what this sub is for.
Sounds like a little bit of an incomplete orientation. We’re they provided with a handbook of what they will need to live here? We’re they provided with all of this information, or the minimum, before arrival and the rest later?
Fresh off the boat, they need bedding, a phone, a bank account, any number of things. Even JET provides info on the basics of living in Japan, and as HR, it’s part of your job.
Any company who brings employees from overseas helps gets newbies the minimum they need to start life. It does sounds like the help has been good, but not organized, nor meeting the needs if you are getting multiple emails from all of them.
Could you make them a pdf with several links to the answers with visuals to the most-asked things?
How to use air-con controller in Japan?
How to buy commuter pass?
How to…?
Maybe 10 living questions. Then a couple links to sights that often update with things of that nature. Tokyo Cheapo and Japan Guide come to mind.
Give ’em a couple links to expat help groups like maybe TEN on Facebook and /japanlife here?
And a link to a paid service for anything above that, such as Omakase Helper.
It might take about 30 minutes to whip that out and send it to them. Plus you will have it for future foreign staff.
Seems others have given you advice, so just to understand the situation, are they American? Younger Americans (but not only) are increasingly less resourceful and more helpless, and it’s getting worse and worse. Among many issues that are driving teachers out of the profession is just how much time they have to spend babysitting kids no matter what age – they’re dealing with high school kids who don’t know how to tie shoe laces. College professors have similar complaints.
“Hey guys, going forward, please follow this checklist before messaging-
1) check google for an answer
2) use google translate app on your phone
3) Etc…
If the above fails, let me know and I’ll help during office hours. Thanks!”
Good luck OP, we’ve had some luck reducing the basic questions by first asking “did you find a support article about it?” whenever new hires ask a question. Half the time they’ll stutter and stumble and realise they didn’t look and go and do it, the other half of the time they’ll say “I checked and I found x and had a question…” which is much more productive.
Seems like you guys made yourselves overly available at the start, which caused them to get too comfortable and see it as the norm. It’s time to set boundaries for what are acceptable times to send questions, what types of questions are acceptable, and ask them to research online first before coming to you guys for help.
Tbh, it is less about their Japanese level and more about how they are treated + the fact that it is their first time here + their personality.
I am not working for HR or anything, but I would never hire anyone outside of Japan for a Japanese company. I am an engineer and Japan’s expectations on IT people is pretty low. I am pretty sure they are not here because anyone needed their skills. (Also the post is about adults incapable of googling most basic things, what unique skills, lol)
Speaking from similar experiences: You have all the right to be frustrated and it’s annoying af when new employees constantly rely on you for every little thing. But it might be worth considering a bit of tolerance in this situation because it might benefit you in the long run. As they settle into their new life here they’ll eventually become more independent and bother you less. Plus, think of it as an investment in your own support squad within the company. Spend some of your time and effort to help them out now, and you might just end up with some loyal teammates who owe you big time. It’s totally worth it.
make boundaries. accept the inquiries on the company phone and ignore them outside working hours
Tell them, in a friendly way, ‘please don’t message us outside of working hours, I want to relax’. That’s entirely a legitimate thing to say.
You’ve led them to believe that your job is their handler, so they treat you like their handler. If they hadn’t been babied so much they wouldn’t act like babies.
It won’t kill them if you just establish a boundary at this point, ‘I can help you with anything, but please consider if you can find a solution yourself, and only ask if it’s not possible for you to find it’. Your company created the dependency, so it’s your job to transition them to independence at this point.
edit: I want to make clear that the employees haven’t done anything wrong. You are in charge of them. Teach them the tools (deepl, google translate live camera function, bus timetable app, local Japanese class) that they need so that those tools can replace you.
I see the big problem here.
Basically, the company hired these people without being prepared – lots of companies that hire people from overseas (including MNCs) have guides to help people with a fair number of these initial questions. This is because they know people from a variety of backgrounds will join, and they will need assistance with seemingly basic things. This then raises the question of what your company is planning in the long run – if they will hire foreigners from overseas every year, then it will very likely be worthwhile to understand what the company can do to improve by creating guides or something similar.
It is unclear what expectations the company communicated to them before joining, but to be incredibly honest the questions they are asking are quite common.
First of all unless it’s an emergency you don’t need to answer your phone at 1am. Get some sleep.
Second, if it is likely the company will hire more foreign employees with only basic Japanese/Japan experience it might be a good idea to put together a “Welcome pack” kind of thing with information about all these common daily things that aren’t necessarily difficult but just a bit confusing until you’re used to the way things work.
Probably there’s already English documents on my number card, basic bank accounts etc from the government and banks themselves. And a quick reference guide for kanji on trash/washing machine etc can help (although I’ve looked up the kanji on washing machines before, understood both the Japanese and English translation and still had no idea what it actually does).
So many foreigners in Japan can’t do anything by themselves.. that is why they end up marrying a Japanese person lol!
Never met a foreigner my age with N3 or less Japanese with realistic expectation for living in Japan.
All weeaboos with grand delusions or hermits that have zero, and I mean zero, willpower to improve their Japanese. Usually its some person who just wants to relive that one college year where they studied abroad in Japan and partied hard getting wasted every weekend.
Also the same shitters who complain on their facebooks that Japan isn’t being inclusive enough but I know they’re talking about their abusive relationship with their Eikaiwa job.
I get hit up in DMs by them after 3 years of silence, asking for help in really basic Japanese document stuff, but I don’t reply to them because I know there’s no end to it.