How much earlier before closing do you generally need to arrive to be seated? Is there an unspoken rule?
We arrived at a Yuba (tofu skin) kaiseki restaurant in the main tourist area in Kyoto (Gion) and were told that the restaurant was full and that we would have to wait.
We arrived 1 hour 30min before closing (8:30PM, they close at 10pm) on a Sunday night.
The greeter said there were 5-6 parties waiting for their last course, and handed us a menu and said that we would only be able to order the 7-course option due to time. He said we would have to wait, but couldn’t give us an estimate because he couldn’t tell and they don’t rush their guests (good!).
One of us thinks that the greeter was rejecting us and was communicating that we could not be seated/served that night. That it’s clearly a case of needing to read between the lines, as we’ve been told about Japanese folks’ indirect way of communicating rejection.
One of us thinks there was still a possibility to be seated, given that the greeter handed us a menu.
I know it’s impossible to know for sure, but whose inference is more likely to be accurate? Are there any cultural nuances going on here?
(We decided to leave and find somewhere else to eat as we were hungry)
12 comments
This will really depend on the restaurant but general rule of thumb is last order is 30mins before closing. Though this is obviously different for you case as prepping a 7 course meal takes time.
The greeter handed you the menu and asked you to wait, I would say those were obvious signs that they genuinely planned to get you seated once there’s a table.
Depends on the restaurant of course, but most regular places will have last order about 1 hour before closing. This information is often signposted somewhere or written inside the menus.
In your case, the greeter probably didn’t want to fully turn you away, but probably also couldn’t guarantee you’d be seated in time. The ‘unspoken’ hint was probably just that it was up to you whether to take the risk of waiting or not. A restaurant that can not take more customers will say so very clearly, even quite bluntly and with crossed arms/fingers to make sure the point is clear.
Restaurants usually will tell you when they can not serve you! I had this happen to me many times here! If they did not want you there, they would not have given you the menu. As someone pointed the 7-course menu would take time, but they would batch-make them for all the people waiting, so the cooking time would be less than if you were to pick what you want.
They gave you a menu as you entered. = Just wait to be seated.
This is one case that is pretty clear, even in Kyoto.
Ok to wait but the service may not be up to your expectations.
I think they were just trying to manage your expectations. If somebody’s hungry and wants to eat and they know that it’s gonna be a long wait they might quite understandably go somewhere else. like others said, if they gave you a menu and didn’t turn you away then I imagine you would have been able to eat ….eventually.
There are some euphemistic ways to say no and such in Japan, but a restaurant is usually going to be quite frank (which they were)
a restaurant used to tourists would usually not play “read between the lines” in difficult mode (saying yes and meaning no)
and read between the lines no is still a no. more “tomorrow would be much better” instead of “not today” although I would guess that “well, who knows. its very difficult, we can try buuut….” could happen, its still not being asked to wait with a menu
when they tell you to wait and give you a menu, its not a guarantee you will be seated. but its a strong indication that they are trying to. now, moving on might still be a good choice, but they probably did not say no and you did not notice. dont worry
Went to a brewery, it was full and was “refused” as there was no seat available. Asked it I could return and in how long and the answer was pretty much “I don’t know how long customer will take”. Then they said maybe in 40 minutes, then ok, please reserve me a place in 40 minutes and it was fine.
So it it absolutely possible that they where just telling you that the place is full and they don’t know how long it will take to people to finish. And considering they know it usually takes more or less how much time for their course meal, then they told you what is the biggest course they could likely accommodate. I would say there is no universal rule, usually you would have to order before last order.
I’ll just order the 1-course meal then, thanks!
I wish I knew this before I came here! Got turned away a handful of times last night pretty early before they were supposed to close
The more popular a place is or the more rural it is, the more likely it is to be closed early.
I’ve been to popular ramen places that were “out of ingredients” and closed 60-90 minutes before closing. I’ve travelled to other cities to go to mom and pop shops that shut down 2 hours early with no signage indicating why.
Even the big cities in Japan largely shut down early. The metro system shuts down early. So I would assume that it wasn’t really possible to have a 7 course meal with no reservation at 9:15 PM.. that’s what the “I don’t know how long you’ll have to wait” means.