My grandmom died last week. I applied for condolence leave (忌引休暇) at work, got 3 days, used an additional 2 days of PTO, and flew to my home country to attend the funeral and grieve with my mom.
I’m back now, and they’re asking for proof that my grandmom died. Problem is, my home country has really slow and corrupt bureaucracy, and going by how long it took when my granddad died, it’ll take months to get a death certificate. I explained that to my company, they said I could also use a funeral invitation as proof. I showed them the messages from my mom, they said they need a formal funeral invitation. My mom didn’t send anyone any formal invites, she just WhatsApped everyone in the family. There’s no receipt for the funeral either, it was all cash (again, very standard for my home country).
Since I can’t prove my grandmom died, they’re making me use my regular PTO instead. Is there anything I can do here at all? I told them I’ll give them the death certificate in a few months, but they said it wouldn’t be possible to retroactively change my PTO to condolence leave.
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You could email or otherwise contact the place the funeral was held and then produce that email as proof. You could also ask whoever paid for the funeral for a receipt/bill and present that.
Finally, how about asking your mom to just have chatGPT or so write a funeral invitation, make it into a word document and give that to the company.
Legally: Condolence leave is not mandated by law, it is entirely up to company policy, and they can apply whatever standards they wish as far as proof, as long as these standards are applied consistently.
Morally: Pretty cold of them to be insisting on being this pedantic after a loss.
Practically: Most companies will also accept an obituary (newspaper, etc.) if there is one. Very often funeral homes will publish them as part of the funeral package, if there is one then you’re probably covered. Otherwise, /u/usersince2015 posted a couple of decent alternatives.
My condolences on your loss 💐
Is there any possibility that the funeral home would be willing to produce some sort of bill if you insist, is there any paperwork from reporting her death to the family register or a similar system they use in your home country, any letters from landlords, utility companies etc that confirm the death of your grandmother as a reason that the contract with them has ended, etc.? In my home country, after a funeral, everyone gets a small card with a picture of the death person (usually a favorite photo of them on holiday or something) and an obituary printed on the card to keep as a memory and place in front of the candles they burn at home for the soul of the death person. If you lose money because of losing days off, is it maybe a possibility to design and print some of these cards as a proof? Might be cheaper then losing days and a keep sake for the funeral attendants that your mother can hand out to them when she sees them again.
If your grandmom had an obituary in the local print newspaper, a copy of that obit is sufficient as proof for most Japanese companies.
Even a web link to the obituary on the newspaper’s **official** website should be ok.
*NOTE:* If you are into being sketchy with your company, many print newspapers charge for a short “featured” obituary such as:
>Mrs. Throwawaydeadgrandma passed away at the age of 72 on June 29, 2023, after a long battle with ingrown toenails. She is survived by her daughter, Planter Wart and her beloved grandson Toefungus Throwawaydeadgrandma…
________________
>{{J-company}} they need a formal funeral invitation.
You can pay the minor fee to the funeral company to print out a “formal funeral invitation” Even in America, I have paid less than a $100 fee for a formal invitation or a print newspaper obituary.
> Is there anything I can do here at all? I told them I’ll give them the death certificate in a few months, but they said it wouldn’t be possible to retroactively change my PTO to condolence leave.
Not a lot you can do. You could complain to HR but presumably the people setting these rules are in…. HR.
I brought my Mums ashes back to Japan and had them on my work desk for a month. No one wanted any further proof.
I sent links to the obituary and a copy of the deceased’s name and contact info for the funeral home/mortuary.
I don’t think they want a full death certificate just something with information they can reference to verify your 5th grandma this year didn’t die.
Fake a program from the funeral (if an invitation would have worked, that should as well). Just make something like this:
[https://elegantmemorials.com/funeral-program-examples](https://elegantmemorials.com/funeral-program-examples)
Write an anti dated letter coming from your mother asking you to attend the funeral ?
If it’s corrupt, faking one shouldn’t be that hard. Ask relatives.
1. Make a formal funeral invitation.
2. Send it to your mother.
3. Ask your mother to send it back to you.
Done. Just print out and give it to HR. You technically have received a formal invitation to the funeral from your mother.
You can skip steps 2 and 3 in most cases though.
Source: I used to perform HR functions at a company in Japan. Had to ask employees for the same kind of proof from them. Also had to return to Australia and submit my own application for bereavement leave too.
No one really wants to ask for it… it’s just a procedural checkbox to discourage abuse of the system and have records if someone has tried to defraud the company. No one actually looks too close.
I really like how if you are faking it, you could easily do this yourself and the company could never know. What would they know about your country’s language/customs. However, poor naive OP is trying to go the legit route and gets shafted.
The reality is, my man, no one working in HR feels comfortable printing out a whatsapp and adding it to the company archives. Since you already admitted there is no formal invitation and receipt from the funeral home, you painted yourself into a corner here.
Here’s the funeral invitation, made by ChatGPT sensei. Just fill in, tell your mom to sign it and send the scan version to you. Or just tell her to send you a picture of her signature, clean it, put it in and scan it again.
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tKHZxcoXsfky9gCXYQhBJl-ytGrRhdkJ/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108505166289136573277&rtpof=true&sd=true](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tKHZxcoXsfky9gCXYQhBJl-ytGrRhdkJ/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108505166289136573277&rtpof=true&sd=true)
​
[OP Name]
[Address]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]
[Date]
**Invitation to Attend the Funeral Service of [Grandma’s Full Name]**
We regret to inform you of the passing of your beloved grandmother, [Grandma’s Name]. It is with deep sadness that we share this news, and we extend our condolences to you and the entire family during this difficult time.
[Grandma’s Full Name] held a special place in her heart for her grandson, and we believe it is important for you to be present at her funeral service to pay your respects and honor her memory. The details of the funeral arrangements are as follows:
Funeral Service:
Date: [Date of the Funeral Service]
Time: [Time of the Funeral Service]
Location: [Name of the Funeral Venue]
Address: [Address of the Funeral Venue]
Contact: [Funeral Director’s Name and Contact Information]
In this time of loss, let us come together as a family to celebrate the remarkable life lived by [Grandma’s Full Name]. We find solace in each other’s support and the memories we hold dear. We truly hope you will be able to join us and ensure that her dear grandson is part of this important tribute.
With heartfelt sympathy,
[OP Mother Name]
Sorry if this is too silly, but could your family quickly make a “fake” funeral invitation and send it over? Even better, you could make one yourself. I don’t see how they could deny it as the funeral actually happened anyway.
If you already told them formal invitations weren’t used, then you could just say “turns out they made them but ended up not using them”. They’re asking for something doesn’t exist, so you give them what they want.
Ask them to take your case to upper management. It sounds like some stupid policy that they’re required to follow. The manager above them should be able to write it off.
if they’re gonna play hardball just fake an invitation
Even in Japan, there are some people who would try to abuse time off, so asking for proof is not unusual.
Expecting different standards due to being a foreigner is also not reasonable to me.
But… If I were your boss and you explained the situation, I would give you a 6 month grace period or something. This isn’t the best time to be making your life not difficult.
Something similar happened to me when my grandfather died during quarantine. I wasn’t able to go back, but I applied for the condolence leave.
Mine included 2 days of PTO and 10,000¥ in compensation that could be used for buying flowers for the funeral.
They also asked me for proof of death, and luckily my parents were able to send me some photos of the obituary as well as some paperwork that my company could not understand.
In my case my lead told me that since I wasn’t able to go back to my home-country, the PTO was meaningless since it was used to attend the funeral and he made me work.
Feels a bit slimy to have to do paperwork while you are grieving a close family member.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Maybe get them to call your grandmother’s house. When there’s no answer you can say, “See, believe me now?!”.
If my company asked for proof they would get my resignation.
I remember when my uncle passed and I took 5 days leave (3 condolence, 2 paid) Family members flew in from South Africa, Australia, America and myself from Japan.
When I got back to work people acted surprised I went and asked said stuff like “you must of been close to fly back”, “I’m surprised to here it was your uncle” with a slight undertone if you catch the drift.
Really ticked me off considering people always say family is first and shit here…
My old Japanese company did this so I sent them a picture of the body at the wake, alongside a very sternly worded letter from my dad. Oh and made sure to do it in front of everyone, so they would come face to face with their callousness.
Is it illegal to defecate on your employers desk?
Picture of the grave?
Send me a PM with the details.
I just deigned invites for an elderly relatives funeral. I’m happy to use the template to make you an invite.
Send it to your mum to send to you and voila. Box ticked.
Tell them that if they really want hard proof of a funeral, you can arrange to have proof of theirs.
Bro just fake it. Open World write something in your country language. Put a stamp and fake sign it. And fax it to them lol
Bring their legal team to the wake.
for a society that is hellbent on “respect” and “honour”, thats pretty fucking shockingly rude and insensitive.