So, the word 兄弟, written with kanji for older and younger brother, and meaning “brothers” or “siblings”. Due to some circumstances i got curious why it doesn’t just mean “brothers”, and while looking for answer… Well, i didn’t find it, but i found something that made me want to just ask for explanation here:
姉妹 (しまい) “sisters”, also has an alternative reading of “kyoudai”, meaning when you say “shimai” – you’re clearly referring to sisters, but when you say “kyoudai” – it could theoretically mean either one. Either one of those, or 兄妹 and 姉弟, or even 兄姉 (which, according to the dictionary, just means “brother and sister” in general, even though it uses “older ___” kanji for both).
All 5 of those words combining various sibling kanjis have main or alt reading of “kyoudai”, really complicating which matching of gender/age of siblings you’re referring to when said rather than written, which is why, i assume, the きょうだい/兄弟 means both “brothers”, as it should, and “siblings” in general.
So… Is that the reason, or is there something else to it? And is it really as screwy of a language situation as it looks, or am i just missing some crucial language detail here?
6 comments
you got it, kyoudai means brothers, but is also the only word for “siblings”. since japanese is …uh… *flexible* in the matter of how you write things, you can use a combination of “brother” and “sister” kanjis there. but it’s still read as kyoudai. (though doing so is technically non-standard)
ok you *can* actually say “kyoudaishimai”. but it’s rare and a bit of a mouthful.
Well, who says it “should” mean one thing or another though? Generally speaking it is common in multiple languages for a masculine version of words to also serve as the one for unspecified, unknown, or mixed gender (for instance, “hermanas” is Spanish for “sisters,” and “hermanos” is Spanish for “brothers,” but “hermanos” can also mean “siblings” or “brothers and sisters”).
it has to do with kanji. when some kanji comes before another kanji, then the kanji changes.
It’s the same with cousins, uncles and aunts, grandparents, great uncles and aunts and maybe more. Their gender and relation to you can come into play in how you write them but the pronunciation is the same.
Kanji jukugo aren’t necessarily tied to pronunciation, especially with what I would call “old words” (words that are so common they presumably existed before languages became formalised).
For in laws we also have お父さん and お義父さん, etc. Both pronounced the same and no one bats and eyelid.
Thank you all! I think i get it a little better now
Also, using men as an approximation for all humans is a pretty universal patriarchal assumption baked into language and culture alike in many places across human history. It’s far rarer to see an explicitly female only word or phrase used as a universal.