Building a new house in Fukuoka. Construction company offered to add a 6KW solar panel system to the house for another 1,700,000 yen (Panasonic brand). Said it would be cheaper to do it now, than doing it later on. The cost is not a problem, but me and my S.O. are debating it.
I think it would be good to have, to keep the ever increasing costs of electricity down. I also think it would be useful in an emergency (since Kyushu gets plenty of typhoons). We could be without power if a bad one strikes the power lines and that could help keep the house running with electricity, just in case. The house roof would get plenty of sun all day, so location isn’t an issue. Also, we plan on getting an electric vehicle in the next couple of years and that would keep the charging costs to barely nothing.
She thinks it’s not worth it because of the initial cost and yearly maintenance costs, and that Kyuden won’t pay much for the electricity we don’t use. She also thinks we have to pay huge taxes on what they do buy. She also says that people on Japanese online forums, who have them, complain about how ugly they are, that they cause more leaks to their roof than without them (not understanding this). And that any major Typhoon could damage them or blow them off entirely. Some say that their neighbors complain that the panels are too shiny and reflecting directly into their house (though I doubt that would be an issue for us). Though hearing that, I sometimes think it’s the neighbors that are complaining online, and not the owners.
Would appreciate any advice, experiences anyone else had with their solar panels, especially in Kyushu-Fukuoka area.
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Our experience has been that they are worthwhile. Ours haven’t caused the roof to leak and haven’t blown off in a typhoon in the 11 or 12 years we’ve had them.
You can’t run your whole house from them during a power cut unless you have something fitted to isolate your house from the grid. You don’t want to electrocute one of the guys working to repair the power lines if your panels are pumping power back into the grid as he is working. However there should be an outlet on the inverter that will let you run a number of devices.
If you are considering getting an electric car then fitting a V2H will overcome that problem and allow you to run the whole house while the power is down as it isolates the house from the grid in power cuts. You can also charge your car from the panels if the car is parked outside the house most of the time.
We’ve never paid to clean our panels, one of use gets up on the roof every 4 or 5 years and gives then a once over.
We have Panasonic panels which have lasted well and we still get 4kw of power on a clear sunny day so there has been little to no degradation over the years.
The FIT is now lower than before but then the purchase price of the panels has also dropped. Your installation company should be able to show what similar installations in your area earn and be able to work out if that will cover the cost of buying and installing the panels.
It’s not been our experience that Panasonic panels are reflective, if they are doing that then they are not absorbing the sunlight to turn into electricity.
It’s a little expensive, but depending on your current electric rates it could be a decent deal. If you figure the panels will produce around 7000-9000kwh in a year multiple that by how much you pay for electricity and that should give you an idea of their worth.
As for maintenace cost, should be near Zero for 10 years or more, and leaky roof, you are having the builder install them not some third party so you should be covered.
No special taxes. No maintenance costs. I have seen complaints of reflections but this can easy be predicted so you can check.
Your price is a bit expensive. Should be around 200,000 per Kw for panels only. I suggest you haggle. Or get a quote from another company first as leverage.
I think the panels are too expensive. I’m building my own house with a 6kw system from Canadian Solar, and the initial cost was 1200,000 yen. However after negotiations on the house price, our house builder offered us a 50% discount, so we’re only paying 600,000 for the solar. I would suggest you negotiate more.
My Japanese colleague signed a contract with TEPCO to install solar panel, renting for 15yrs and he can own the panel afterwards, I think this might be a good way since the 15-year rental period someone is doing maintenance for you.
I got solar panels added to our house two years ago. Ours was a 4.4KW system so it was cheaper but your cost does seem a bit higher. We shopped around for our panels and found a local company near our house to do it. There is no special tax we pay for what we earn selling what we don’t use. It is automatically transferred into my bank account monthly. My wife had also read about the leaks but it depends on your roof and what way they use to install the panels on. If you are building your house along with the panels, you can probably request they do it with mounts without drilling.
We got 9.8kw panels on our house and have them on a 10 year lease. The price for power sold back to the grid is fixed (we got 17 yen/kwh) for 10 years and overall we’re +7000 yen per month on selling vs consumption. Our house is airtight (G3 level at 0.2uh) and energy efficient so that probably contributes to the equation as well. With the lease and all up we spend about 3000 yen per month in energy costs (all electric, no gas).
You would have to run the numbers on consumption vs the rate you get from Kyuden but I think it’s a no brainer to take some steps towards self sufficiency when the planet is getting fucked. We decided to not go for batteries due to their lifespan and waiting to see how the tech develops over the next decade so when our lease is over and our selling rate comes down it might become worth it down the road instead.
In terms of what Japanese people say and do, keep in mind the general population anywhere is completely retarded so don’t care too much. Building a house and looking at decisions other people have made with their houses I happily went 100% against the grain and used no fence, put in a green yard and lots of windows not the typical submarine box with port holes.
We ended up super happy with our house but I could talk for weeks about all the stupidity we saw on the way.
Yes.
Solar panels will also help your house stay cold in summer and prevent heat from escaping during winter through your roof. That alone will already save you some money on cooling/heating costs.
Solar panels are not very reflective, they actually reflect less light than regular roof tiles (~2% vs ~4% of specular reflection, albedo reflection depends on the color of the roof/solar panel). However, because the glass surface is smooth, the specular reflection is sharp while rough surfaces like roof tiles will scatter the reflected light.
Do not install batteries, it will ramp up the cost of the installation for very little benefits. Just change your habits to consume electricity when you produce it and only have lights, your fridge and your tv on at night when you are not producing.
Buy an EV/plug-in hybrid while you can still get the 支援金. The low range of plugin hybrids is still good enough for your daily usage and modern cars can act as a backup battery for your house in case of emergencies.
Sounds a bit expensive, I just got an offer for ~9.9kW system for 1.3M, two companies were bidding.
Used グリエネ to find companies.
Arent there also gov. subsidies available for this? Although this may vary by location.
Architectural and Mechanical equipment cost has been going up and up, so people saying its expensive may be partly because of that. Building things are going up at a shocking rate right now.
Does 1.7m include a battery(chikudenchi)?
Panasonic are getting out of the solar manufacturing business and you can get equally good panels from other makers for cheaper. There’s definitely a made in japan tax. If you’re tied to them because the house maker is partnering with them that’s too bad.
With panels you want to look at the maker guarrantees(how many years and what level of degradation), as well as understanding that the guarrantees are somewhat hard to enforce(it’s apparently not easy to prove excess degradation)
I don’t think the anti-solar arguments are for the most part that applicable. Cheap operators can sometimes do shoddy installs, but (one of) the reason solar is expensive in japan is that due to the typhoons the installation has to be pretty bulletproof, and they don’t just come flying off. Having them installed by the actual constructor(if they’re a good place you trust) will also likely be better and won’t affect the warranty on your roof.
If it was me I’d probably do it but I’d look to see if it’s possible to use different panels.
Also worth keeping in mind that the performance of panels will vary with local climate but also the angle and facing of your roof as well as any surrounding obstacles. So if the constructor is trying to have you install them on a north-facing roof with a large condo blocking light part of the day, that would not be a smart idea
So worth it. I have a 9kwh system and battery. I’m able to sell the extra I don’t use back to the grid. I got a solar loan for the panels and battery since I got them after the house was built.
I feel like the battery was very worth it since we’ve lost power before due to typhoons and the battery has saved our butts since we could still power the fridge and charge our phones.
Also the battery lets us use what we made during the day at night. Even now with AC usage, I’m still selling more than I use. I pay around ¥3000 to tepco for high usage nights and rainy/cloudy days. Winter is a bit more expensive since the heaters cost more to runn
My understanding, which is most likely wrong, was that getting a ZEH certification on your house (I thought is was mandatory now?) will give you tax breaks that can pay for the solar panels. Also, installing batteries will probably not be worth the costs, ongoing costs, replacements and maintenance involved with current battery technologies.
Wow solar panels have gotten really cheap.
Just calculate everything. These are not unknown things:
How much is the expected savings on electricity per year = A
How much is the expected price you can get for excess from Kyuden per year = B
How much is the cost to register everything? = C
How much is the risk that a typhoon damages the system in % ? = D
How much is the average damage from a typhoon? = E
How much is the maintenance cost per year? = F
How much is the rate on the loan that is used to pay for the panels in % ? = G
How much is your point in time you want to confirm (e.g. 10 years)? = H
(A+B)*H -C – (D*E) – (F*H) – (170万*G) = expected return after H years.
After you have this one, then you can ask your wife if it weighs positively against whatever unquantifiable things like whether the neighbors will think it is shiny or posh or someone at their work will suck their teeth or so.
Then you make a decision.
How about Tesla solar roof if she is concerned about the looks?