I have several friends who have gone through surgery or dental work with what could barely be called pain management, a few Tylenol(karonaru), and often left to suffer several sleepless nights because they won’t give pain medicine that can deal with the pain. As for myself I suffer from recurring kidney stones, and even when half crawling to the emergency room, they give nothing more than some slightly stronger tylenol and ibuprofen.
How the hell is it THIS bad here? And how can one deal with it and get actual pain medicine and treatment?
(Edit: this is not a thread about US opioid addition, this is not a “I hate japan” thread. This is about a specific problem in Japanese medical care that I have seen for over twenty years, vast under treatment of heavy pain. Something I have experienced myself. Stop trying to conflate and derail. Thank you.)
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I’ll take the way things are done in Japan, thanks. The opiate disaster in the US & Canada is the result of the way things are done there. Opiates are not to be F’d with and should only be given out in the most severe of situations. Late stage cancer, for example.
Have you tried drinking tea? /s
Do you want opioids?
In no small part because dosing has to be set based off what’s safe for a 40kg.woman.
Also minimal opioids although I did get tramadol after my accident and surgery.
Take two 我慢 and call me in the morning.
You from North America? Not every country throws opioids at every little ouchie.
i’m so sorry and hope you find the relief you need.
fwiw post-ceserean section (a massively invasive surgery) i had to BEG for more than just ibuprofen and they finally agreed to an IV drip every six hours. Of fucking karonaru! why on an IV drip?! & I still had to set alarms and call the nurses to bring it for me. this was at aiiku in tokyo, where we were paying top yen for ‘foreigner-friendly’ service, too.
I had surgery and never really had a problem, but then again, that’s just my experience.
I managed to get codine from a dentist after a wisdom tooth removal after a lot of haggling. He said it was for cancer sufferers and I’d have to go to the pharmacy near the hospital for it to be filled. I’d finish it in a day or two and have to go back to the dentist to be prescribed more.
A year later I was visiting Sri lanka and had a headach so went to a pharmacy and asked for something, she asked how many I wanted about to cut one or two from the blister pack. I noticed it was a box of codine so I said just give me the box. It was like 50yen lol.
I had kidney stones last year… doc gave me some Loxoprofen. It’s the first time in my entire history of medical care in Japan that the F’ers actualy WORKED! And crazily enough, it’s OTC. I’ve since bought some to keep at home, and I’ll be damned if the little bastards don’t do the trick every time.
They fixed my broken pelvis, later a hip replacement, and another thing or two.
I got along okay with the way they do it here.
**Why are Japanese doctors** …………….
Another one who has experienced every doctor in Japan.
In my 25 years here I’ve had stents fitted, a bladder tumour removed, pneumonia and a knee operation. Great treatment every time in 3 different hospitals, adequate pain medication when needed. So quit the Japan-bashing, it isn’t “THIS bad here” at all, you’ve either been unlucky, not explained your problems properly or you’re just grandstanding, attention-seeking.
My cousin died from an opiate overdose (fentanyl in a tab of X) a few years back. I’m generally happy with the tight control here over opiates and other addictive painkillers.
Makes total sense for things like a broken foot or a snapped ligament where the pain serves a purpose of keeping you off the injured limb, or for most dental pain where it’s manageable by following instructions.
For something like kidney stones or abdominal surgery where you can’t control the pain stimulus (can’t tell a kidney stone not to move!), it would make sense for an allowance of stronger meds, though. They do need to review the criteria.
In Japan you have to specifically ask for anything stronger than OTC pain meds.
They tried to give me the usual NSAIDs for second degree burns until I asked them to give me something that came in needle form…
My condition brings with it a lot of chronic pain issues and I’ve gone through a couple big joint surgeries here.
The first time, I’d arranged for a certain prescription painkiller to be tucked away in a care package. Come surgery time I took the bottle to the hospital, explained what it was and that everyone’s life would be much easier if I got half a pill a day. The doctors and nurses pow-wowed and agreed, and we were good.
The second time, my docs prescribed tramadol, and things were still good. In fact they prescribed so much that I still have a bunch lying around somewhere that I’m not sure is good anymore.
Because of my condition I was raised to be really assertive when dealing with anything health related – it is not a skill everyone has, but it *is* a skill you can develop by remembering that in the grand scheme of things, the gaijin yelling about needing painkillers won’t traumatize the nurses nearly as much as the elderly cancer patient shitting out his lungs.
If yelling and repeating your point to the doctor until they cave to your will isn’t enough, remember the magic words: “I want to file a claim with the consultation center” (which hospitals are required to have in some form).
It’s a tough battle but let your bitterness at the medical system fuel you, and remember that if they’re making your day shitty you have all the rights in the world to return the favor.
Edit: Should also note that because of my condition I get check-ups at my hospital a few times a year and I have very good relationships with my doctor, which goes a long way. A doctor who’s never dealt with you may be cautious, but a doctor you have a good rapport with will cooperate to a reasonable extent.
Triple dose of benzablocks might do the trick
Try a different doctor/dentist? I had a bad experience at the first dentist I visited here and then found a good one. I’ve never felt pain in any of my visits since then.
Asians generally tend to not give too much painkillers or try to avoid anesthesia when possible. For what reason I don’t know, but it is what it is.
I went to nursing school and did a whole class on medical calculations.
Pain meds for white people and Asians are calculated with a different formula. In America the doctor once accidentally calculated my wife’s dosage based on the white people formula and she said colors got really colorful and she felt weird and then she vomited. The pharmacist noticed the mistake AFTER she took the medicine.
I would guess two things are happening here:
1- Maybe they’re not taking your weight into account. I was 129kg last year, that’s more than 3x a 40kg Japanese woman.
2- Because Japan is mainly one race doctors may not know that white people need more mg per kg than Asians.
(Patiently waiting for someone to call me racist)
Suffering is virtue in Japan, you know. More pain, more gain. I dunno. It’s inhumane.
Where are you all getting opioids from? They’re extremely restricted, the hospital needs a special license, and there are NONE in this area. Badly herniated disc, was told to “gaman” and given no pain relief whatsoever.
Speaking in your edit you seem to think opioid problems around the world aren’t connected to Japan not giving them out. For a simple explanation look at OD per capita in the US then for Japan.
A few years back I had surgery for bone setting after a nasty break and they sat me around on no more than a blistering 50mg per day of Loxoprofen.
When I asked for more or something stronger I was reacted to as if I was a junkie.
This is a genuine cultural difference that has its roots in Buddhism. You’ll hear the word “gaman” a lot in Japan (or variations on the theme like “ganbaru”), but what people may not know is that this word has its origins in Zen Buddhism, and is intricately intertwined with complex ideas about being mature, and being virtuous. One of the core concepts in Buddhism is that suffering is necessary, virtuous, and the way to enlightenment and freedom from physical concerns. It’s not unique – one can find echoes of this type of thinking in various Christian sects in the past that wore hair shirts and engaged in self-flagellation. Nowdays you have to pay a woman dressed in latex a pretty penny for that sort of thing!
Jokes aside, this is a deep cultural concept that may be difficult for people to express clearly, it is merely “the way things are done”, and they’re learned from watching how others behave and what behaviour is considered praiseworthy and what behaviour is considered childish and ill-mannered.
If you ask a Japanese doctor about this you’ll find they’ll founder for a reason why they aren’t giving you heavier painkillers. They’ll talk about the addictive potential of painkillers (which is frankly nonsense given that what they’re giving you is normally paracetamol, which is not physically addictive). They’ll fumble next for “recommended dosages” – which are based, as someone else has noted, on much smaller and lighter Japanese people.
The approach that has generally worked for me is to approach this explicitly as a cultural issue. State that you understand that “gaman” is a Japanese cultural value that has tremendous weight in Japanese thinking. State that foreigners don’t subscribe to this cultural notion – we regard suffering pain as unpleasant and unnecessary. State that you know they can give you stronger painkillers, and that you want them. Now please. I’ve found that this approach works well. Don’t ask questions. They probably have never thought about this once in their lives – it is merely “the way things are done”. Just state clearly that this is a cultural difference, and that you want the good stuff. Now please.
… Then prepare to stick your finger where the sun shineth not. No, seriously. Most of the heavier-line painkillers come in suppository form.
Be careful what you wish for?
Buddhism shmuism, Gaman jyaman. It’s ALL about money. The “system” is super stressed so all the medical fields get the memo, “cut back whatever you can limit whatever you can.” Simple example, ever been to a normal every-day dentist out in the sub-burbs? Before the drill starts it’s always, “tell me if it starts to hurt.” I’m like… “what!!?” In the states this would NEVER happen, they wouldn’t even ask because they got-cha so drugged up or numb you ain’t gonna feel a thing. In Japan you got to get some private health insurance (but some of those companies are super… well, not nice) or head down to Thailand or over to Costa Rica.
I am by ethnicity 100% East Asian and female, and I too find the pain relief options here to just sort of suck. It took me over 8 doctors to be prescribed pain patches, let alone painkillers or even a muscle relaxant for my musculoskeletal problem. They would rather give me benzodiazepines for months on end, which I ended up caving in and trying for a month and quitting because it didn’t work well and I didn’t want to continue and risk dependency. I also fractured my ankle in the past and the pain meds barely worked for that. I cried every day for weeks, could barely sleep or start physio because of the pain, and even went back to the hospital to demand either more pain meds or something stronger, and it took a lot of demanding to finally get what I needed.
Why is it this way? Honestly I don’t know either. Everything mentioned here is somewhat true, but…
You mention the opioid addiction, but in the end of the day they want to avoid opioids.
Theres also a relatively strong culture of gaman.
Theres also some concepts iirc in pain science of training your nervous system. If youre used to dealing with small pains with ibuprofen youre gonna need something bigger for the significant ones. I personally get plenty of relief from the standard painkillers here and Im about 75kg. But if you’re accustomed to us meds I can imagine it wouldn’t do much for you.
You have my sympathies though as ive never had kidney stones and hope not to. You would think they’d try to give something stronger but I guess they dont give anything strong to outpatients?
I got high dosed pain killers without problems, so you probably just had bad luck and got a bad doctor. This isn’t a systematic issue.
When I had my wisdom teeth extracted in Japan, I literally wanted to die for 3 weeks because the pain was excruciating. Had my other wisdom teeth removed in the US and recovered in 3 days with minimal pain.
hello
i suffer from idk if kidneystones or uti
i get better with coconut juice everytime
please try drinking a can?
doctor advise:
be specific n forward (when it comes to my child sometimes im dramatic too)
one time i get some tests done is when i specifically told my doctor i think i have UTI can i get some tests done? it seems like saying it hurts is not enough urghhh
flashback to my trauma of enduring lvl 20 labour pain for 36hrs with a cerclage on and idk if its really labour because i was only 25weeks and i just keep saying it hurts only when i suggest its labour pain . can tgey make the labour stop do they did something n gave me medicine when it didnt work only did they finally
they took the cerclage out and i gave birth instantly. doc even took time to tell me my cervix will burst if we dont remove cerclage off i was so ready 24 hrs ago
I can’t answer your question.
However, I had a very bad kidney stone: 5mm or 0.5 cm. Very very painful.
Try asking your doctor for Toradol/ketorolac (a nsaid, not tramadol).
I’ve had opioids such as hydrocodone and oxycodone while I had kidney stone and they aren’t enough. Maybe reduced pain by 20%. Granted I was on a lower still lucid dosage, not high as a kite dosage.
I think toradol has a side effect that relaxes the ureter which partially relieves the obstruction caused by the kidney stone lodged in the ureter which relieves the pressure on the kidney as well as the cramping in the muscles of the ureter.
Another medicine to ask for is tamsulosin/flowmax which does something similar but is not a painkiller. The relaxing of the ureter also helps the stone pass faster.