So I know this a topic spoken about but I got some questions, because it seems I still dont get it.
I made some friends (rather: contacts) in Japan and was/am writing with them. The thing is, if I do not write anything first, there will be no message from them.
I would love to meet up and do some shit, but I also dont want to bother them. So I try to ask the sneaky way but – there is no reply to that. When we met in person they said „lets go drinking/eating!“ but thats it. Do I have to be more direct? Or is this the way friendships with gaijins work here (Tokyo area)?
I also feel like guys have a very cold way of answering in messages? I always feel like I shouldnt have written this or that. Completely different when talking.
I have a friend with whom I was writing since 6 years ago, we met once, and since then everytime I asked her to meet again she basically said „busy“. But we still write quite often. Doesnt make sense to me?
On the other end, I have older friends (your drunk ojisan) who tries to connect to me, shows me the city, hidden spots and in general feels like a normal friend. We can spent a whole day and talk in japanese.
Age wise, Im 27, maybe thats the point? I certainly dont behave like I am supposed to with that age, but maybe that gap is too much for 20-21 year old students? We went drinking once and it was quite fun, said to do it again going to a different izakaya, but nothing since then. Maybe I am just キモッ? Language Barrier might also be a point, but most also want to learn english and try to speak it with me sometimes. Weird.
Would love to hear your opinion.
Edit: Thank you all so much! I was at baito so I couldnt answer yet. Your comments gave me good insight and another way to think about it! Thank you!
33 comments
I say, in my opinion, that you will make a lot, A LOT, of acquaintances but not what we consider “friends” in our western mind.
If someone says they are busy and can’t set a date to meet that is a polite “no”. Give it a couple of tries but don’t persist.
Your experience sounds totally normal. That is how Japanese people are.
I have Japanese acquaintances that will say “let’s meet for drinks” for 6 months before they actually agree to a date. I think it’s normal unfortunately.
I’ll give short answer: there is no friendship in this country, only acquaintances.
Your friends are Japanese? We really often say “let’s grab a drink next time!” but this is just a lip service and we’re not so serious.
Your friend whom you’ve known for 6 years, she’s literally too busy or just saying “no” indirectly or politely.
Your older friends just want to communicate with people from abroad for some reasons. These “people from abroad” don’t have to be you.
I think neither of them is your friend. They’re probably your acquaintances.
Tbh, it’s fun to talk with people from abroad in case I’m interested in their countries and cultures, however, it’s just boring if I’m not.
Edit:
5 – 6 year gap is really huge for Japanese people, especially students. They have been friended with other people of the same school year only. Almost all of my Japanese friends are as old as I.
I think we don’t really mind how old people from abroad are since we also know the age gap isn’t a big problem in some other countries, however, students who are not interested in foreign cultures, they tend to make friends with other Japanese students who are as old as they only.
Your experience is normal. From what my Japanese friends tell me, as an adult it’s hard to make NEW deep friendships as well. Ive found compatibility is just one thing that matters, matching schedule, matching life paths also matter a huge amount.
Just keep plugging away and you’ll eventually see who sticks around and reciprocates. Honestly for me it’s like 1/10 friendships that seems to last a decent length of time and of those 1/10 a further 1/5 actually feel like real friendships where we seek a deeper connection than simply doing stuff together. Then I move or they move or our schedules change and that’s just life, not having permanency is kind of what makes connecting with people special for me. Being fully present because there is no promise of the future, is what I try to focus on.
I wish you an interesting journey where you find beacons of companionship that enhance the moments in time you share and can look back at fondly, cherishing a life lived in a meaningful way for you and those you care about.
Specific suggestions, join a thing. Activity, sport, hobby, volunteer group, whatever. I’m over simplifying but japanese people tend to be really passionate about their thing, if you join a thing and can share the enjoyment of that thing it’s very easy to join a group of friends. I’ve never really had a bad experience being a gaijin in this circumstance even with just n3 level japanese.
Start a thing, almost all the things above have a type of forum or website you can organize times and location for open meet ups. Pick a location and time convenient for you that allows you to do the thing you enjoy. Then religiously do that thing. Its a slow burn but allows you to create the community you’re looking for. Just FYI you can do this for work as well. Japan is starved for professional development, it’s scary that so many professions don’t invest in life long learning. I work in special education and host a monthly meet up and it is kind of heartwarming that people find it valuable space.
Japanese friendships are mostly friends from high school or university. Adult friends are made by meeting face to face many times through common hobbies. It’s hard to become more than an acquaintance just by exchanging messages.
Don’t take it to heart, the average teenager has very little to contribute to a friendship in any country.
But.. I mean.. what could you possibly have in common with a 20 year old? I presume they are females, so yes, they probably think you’re weird and trying too hard (for what exactly..)
In Japanese, saying 「また遊ぼう！」「今度飲もう！」 and then never following up on it is called 社交辞令（しゃこうじれい）. For all intents and purposes, it’s a greeting. Don’t take it at face value.
I’ve kinda overcome this by being entertaining and fun to be with. The attending parties don’t have to carry a conversation or have awkward moments so they probably feel okay hanging out with me.
I wouldn’t turn my nose up at the older friend who likes to show me hidden spots, but I’m really interested in the history of the city I live in so YMMV, I guess. The fact that they like going out for drinks is a bonus!
I think age plays a role too, you and your friend belong to two different life stages. They are probably in university, they are busy with studying and hanging out their university friends, hobby friends, dating etc. Which, I’m sorry to say, will probably be a higher priority than you. You might be a fun foreigner friend, but they have a world of option of fun friends, so you’re not special. On the other hand, older people don’t have the luxury of meeting new acquaintances that often so they might be more inclined to welcome you.
It might be good to reflect on the way your asking. You may be coming across as too pushy/needy. Ask someone once if they want to hang out and if they decline, leave it and wait for them to approach you.
I know people often say this is how friendships are here but in my experience, people will make time for you if they want to hang out. If not, they’ll set a date, even if it’s far in the future.
If you’re always getting “I’m busy”’s then they ain’t interested.
Are you always targeting 20/21 year olds?
TBH people here are always busy with work or school. Then the time off is needed to clean/buy for the next week. Don’t let it get to you, maybe they just have less time than you.
A Japanese guy I thought I was friends with just left Japan and did not even say good bye. He went to Canada. He was over at my house, he helped me unbox a new mountain bike I bought, and I gave him 10,000 Yen for the help and bought him lunch. I also met in him Starbucks a few times to practice English. But in May he moved to Canada. Not a word. We were supposed to go mountain biking before he moved to Canada. I sent him 3 or 4 emails to ask him what his schedule was and to tell him when I was free. No reply. Nothing. I’ve talked to guys older than me who have lived here for decades and they have told me that Japanese friends are situational. When they move or get transferred for work, they just cut off contact. It’s weird.
>The thing is, if I do not write anything first, there will be no message from them.
>I would love to meet up and do some shit, but I also dont want to bother them.
They probably feel the same way. Japan’s circle of loneliness in a nutshell.
Everybody has their own way to be in the world. I don’t know yours, I don’t know your acquaintances’.
That said, I’m the type that thinks that life is too short for protracted games of subtly and “reading the air.”.
So, in that spirit, consider using your gaijin powers to break the 和 and just ask the real question:
“Hey, I’ve been reaching out and trying to find a time to get together, but that hasn’t worked out. I’d still like to see you, but I understand if that’s not what you want. But just so that I have the right expectation and mindset: do you want to get a coffee sometime in the next two weeks, or should I leave you alone?”
Of course, you gotta be ready to accept with equanimity “actually I have a boyfriend and don’t want to see anyone” or whatever else comes back, but at least you’ll probably break the pattern and advance the state of play.
By writing I assume you mean like… chatting on LINE or email right?
Anyway, are you male or female? If you’re a guy, I can understand why the girl you met with once continues to talk to you but doesn’t want to meet again. It’s nice to maintain friendships but it is another thing to spend time 1-on-1 with a guy you’re not romantically interested in here
I guess that goes for the other people too… it’s nice to chat, it’s an effort to meet up. I know that feeling tbh – I have a friend that ALWAYS wants to meet whenever either of us initiates a conversation. But sometimes I just want to chat with her on Instagram without all that, I’m too busy to make plans but it gets awkward saying no so often!
Assuming you’re from an English speaking country, don’t forget Japanese is a high context language. Reading the room is far more important than what is actually said.
So what’s different in Japan?
Well you have an island nation that had a bubble that burst 30 years ago but business culture has been clinging to that bubble because it’s an island.
You can’t make real friends because making friends is really hard when the economy will fall apart. (I’m not talking about you specifically, just this has been a common thread for almost 30 years)
Boring answer but that’s why I made a gym. I’m running a small gym because people need friends.
In other words, it’s you everyone and It’s all those Japanese acquaintances of yours. Sustaining friendships is impossible if you don’t have time to do it.
I don’t mean to sound cynical, I just have a hard time believing the people answering your question have life experience as an adult.
Your question is sound. Just please please take every comment (including mine, I mean, you don’t know me either, just please please) with a very hefty grain of salt.
And I run a gym so it’s summer and maybe more salt.
Edit: reread your post. So I’m restating, your questions make sense, im just getting bored with commenters.
Age difference – yeah ok. But refer back to the bubble thing. 27 year olds here have very few real prospects. It took me two hours to find a specific type of diapers for my son (emergency so we couldn’t order online), but every single drugstore had a massive array of adult diapers and I live in Kyoto where there are lots of children.
And now I feel bad like I am going all bukowski. So I’m going to offer advice as though I’m much older (im literally only 10 years older so again – massive grain of salt), don’t search out friends. Figure out something you want to do for fun and the friends will happen.
I have my gym people, but I also have my Linux people.
A friend of mine has whisky people.
My father in law has his Irish cultural appreciation people. He’s Japanese but – seriously – when Irish bands come to Japan, they call him. He watches Irish news everyday, it’s his thing. It’s not an obsession, he was just obviously born to be a Japanese guy who legit loves Ireland.
I’m not saying a hobby. I’m saying find something you’re passionate about and you’ll find Japanese people who are into the same thing.
Edit 2: yeah ok, the comments are not terribly toxic. I think I am just getting grumpy.
You’ll never make close friends in Japan just acquaintances! Maybe maybe you will have that one person who will be reliable and a friend but most of the time they have a schedule now foreigners you’ll make patently of friends!
Certainly Japanese don’t say no and stay polite, and you kinda have to read between the lines. Other than that I think it’s the same in any country. As soon as your friends get married, it’s super hard to get to meet them anymore.
The solution is to start some activity that surrounds yourself with people who don’t care about you for English practice but rather for whatever the activity is that you’re doing together. Drinking with people could be the activity so in that case you can just go to some tachi Nomi bar and mingle with the random crowd there, if that’s all you’re after. If you think it’s strange to drink with randoms, then just understand that that is how those Japanese contacts are thinking of you too, unfortunately.
I’m gonna go ahead and say this is not really a unique problem to Japan. I’ve been a stranger in a western city and it’s hard and lonely to start finding friends as an adult. Maybe you’ve been late to notice because you’ve filled up the friendship gaps with Japanese people who are interested in you for English reasons until now.
Anyway, not too late to start some hobby, so go for it. Even if it doesn’t lead you to friendships straight away at least you’re keeping busy and enriching your life.
It seems I cant edit my post or my app doesnt update it correctly.
Just wanted to say thanks to all, got me great insight to think about! I was at work and could not answer earlier, I am sorry.
I also hope my comments get through, Automod seems to hate me.
To be clear I am definitely not a pushy type, I am even quite sensitive and therefore a bit confused about how I stand with Japanese people. I dont expect a 20 year old student to randomly become my closest friend, and I am aware about the language barrier. Not understanding my colleagues story drives me mad and has become my main reason to study Japanese.
Long story short: Japanese people suck. If you want friends, meet more foreigners.
Yeah, I guess they take the phrase ‘taking it slow’ to a whole new level! Cheers to patience!
thats your introverted mind getting in your way. just be nice and friendly. theyre worried its going to get awkward or be out of place which is normal for any introverts actually. they wanna make sure that they’re gonnA have fun with you, that youre the type of person they can be comfortable with, even if they are introverts. you have to show off your friendly extroverted ways more for them to take up the challenge.
I’d say this is normal or as expected. That being said, I would however want to say that it really does depend on the person, as well as said person doing the asking.
Might be a black and white answer but I feel like if someone really wants to hang out or do stuff, they’d take a few seconds to try and coordinate something or at least reach out to confirm. This problem isn’t necessarily a Japanese/Japanese culture thing, I think it pretty much applies everywhere.
You will never be able to navigate interpersonal relationships with Japanese people through written correspondence. It’s completely impossible if you’re not already well versed.
You have to get out there and meet like minded people and hang out with them.
The easiest way to do that is through a social hobby (such as sports or attending a class) or volunteering. You’ll make friends who share an interest with you and there will be plenty of opportunities to learn the social cues and rules through actual socializing.
Don’t worry if you’re shy or awkward. Japanese social groups are especially forgiving of shyness and awkwardness because people are less confrontational here.
most japanese people i know fall into the acquaintance category, and each person is different. i’ve even heard it’s common among them as well, having drinking/chatting buddies but very few close connections. sometimes it’s there but circumstances are tough. i made one friend that i’ve known for yrs now. our lives are so hectic we hardly text, let alone meet, but he was there for me a few times when i needed help, and i’ve helped him, so that’s just the unfortunate dynamic we have. i’d love to hang out more, but i’m still happy to know he’s a real friend.
I see a lot of people commenting here with similar experiences to you. And, I think that there is a lot of truth to what a lot of people are saying.
But, to offer an alternative perspective, I have been able to make legitimate friendships here in Japan. People who I meet on a consistent basis and have relationships with that feel as genuine as my “foreign” friends.
Pretty much all these friends are people I went to school with, or I have worked with over the years. It is true not just in Japan but everywhere, one of the key components to forming friendships is to have consistent, unscheduled time together. What “unscheduled” means is you end up being around each other because of going to the same school, job, etc. and neither party has to put them selves out there to schedule a specific meetup.
After going to school here and working at a company with mostly Japanese staff for 7 years, I have solid relationships with a number of people I meet socially on a regular basis.
>The thing is, if I do not write anything first, there will be no message from them.
My kids in a nutshell. They’re more Japanese than American…
I can speak to the age gap stuff. There’s a really common pattern of “party all night in your early 20s, then start looking at getting married in your mid/late 20s.” In your early 20s all your friends are 飲み友 and after you get married all your friends are ママ友 or…actually I don’t know what the male version is…work friends I guess. Everything is so cliquish that if you miss the proverbial boat you’re in a kind of social purgatory where it’s harder to make friends than it already is by default with how shallow interpersonal relationships are here. Kinda similar to how fresh grads have trouble with work if they miss the mass hiring.