As I have understood it is never okay to hit someone. I get it if you are initiating, but is it okay to hit back if someone hits you? A self defence type situation?
I have never been in trouble with the law and I am not about to start now. Never initiated a fight either, I am just curious about what applies in a situation like that.
Say on the train where you can’t really run anywhere if it is crowded, and someone decides to hit you while they are being drunk and angry, can you defend yourself or do you always risk getting in trouble?
Since trains have cameras I would assume it would be easier to prove self defense. Sorry if it is a dumb question but I have heard so many different versions, and I read stuff online but I am still confused.
26 comments
You are to remove yourself from the situation. It’s about self-defense, not pride defense. If there was literally no way for you to get away without hitting the person, then you could argue that, but pushing would make more sense.
If the train is so crowded that you can’t move away, then it’s too crowded for a fight, so playing out that hypothetical situation is pointless.
I would assume dragging them to the koban would be okay /s
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/15bkqz6/a_man_got_dragged_to_police_station_in_kabukichō/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/15bkqz6/a_man_got_dragged_to_police_station_in_kabukichō/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I would actually like to know the actual law regarding self defence too. So far I just assume you have the duty to retreat and only use reasonable force as a last resort.
– https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/qjzcmj/ways_to_defend_yourself/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
– https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/12d0dvz/if_someone_enters_my_house_at_night_without_my/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
– https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1vl7t4/selfdefense_law_in_japan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
– https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/r944i7/what_exactly_are_the_laws_regarding_self_defense/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
– https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/wls5ev/what_kind_of_objects_are_legal_in_japan_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Anyway, If someone assaults you, protect and defend yourself, run, call for help, do what you gotta do but protect and defend yourself. You ain’t getting deported for that.
unless it’s a matter of life and death,
don’t fight back even in self-defence:
get hurt as much as possible,
THEN file a 被害届 and ask for 慰謝料
Keep in mind the idea of a measured response if you are in a situation where you can’t back off, one punch KO someone because they were a bit agitated is not measured.
I think for the most part, at least from what I have heard, if you hit a Japanese person and you are not on a PR visa you are kinda screwed.
A friend of mine, who is partially Japanese, said this which kinda illustrates the problem “yeah this guy is such a jerk, I will get him to hit me so he gets deported”.
I am assuming in self-defense cases, unless you have ample proof it was self-defense, you are screwed. Japan is genuinely concerned with the fact that there is any proof (scratch marks, that you can be the victim, etc). Like if you have damage on you and you are 100 times taller than them, claiming self-defense would be really hard. Video proof or even audio proof would be super helpful.
Without those, I think it is dangerous.
The correct response is to run away.
If not applicable it’s tricky because you can get into a fight but you need to disengage the moment they do.
IANAL but,
Try to deescalate > run away > appropriate response.
That means if someone is in your face yelling 帰れ at you, you do the typical Japanese response of ignoring them. If that doesn’t work, you go somewhere else (preferably somewhere with people, best would be near a koban, if not somewhere with cameras), if that doesn’t work and the other party is attacking you, you fight back with a matching response. That means if someone is smacking you on the head with a harisen you probably should not stab them.
Articles 36 and 37 of [Japan’s Penal Code](https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3581/en) provide for self-defence and necessity:
Self-Defence
Article 36
(1) An act a person was compelled to take to protect the rights of oneself or any other person against imminent and unlawful infringement is not punishable.
(2)An act exceeding the limits of self-defense may lead to the punishment being reduced or may exculpate the offender in light of the circumstances.
Necessity
Article 37
(1)An act a person was compelled to take to avert a present danger to the life, body, liberty or property of oneself or any other person is not punishable only when the harm produced by such act does not exceed the harm to be averted; provided, however, that an act causing excessive harm may lead to the punishment being reduced or may exculpate the offender in light of the circumstances.
(2)The preceding paragraph does not apply to a person under special professional obligation.
[IANAL, obviously. This is not legal advice, obviously. That said:]
How good is your Japanese? How well are you going to be able to argue with the cops and explain your position to them, and explain exactly what happened? How much time do you want to spend dealing with the cops, and how much time are you willing to potentially spend in lockup while it gets sorted out? If you end up in lockup, you’re very likely to lose your job, so keep that in mind too.
If you think you’re going to end up dead yourself then do what you need to do. Even if you end up in prison for 3-5 years on a manslaughter charge, it’s better than being dead.
Otherwise, consider carefully paragraph one and do whatever you can to remove yourself from the situation. Failing that, do the absolute minimum required to defend yourself, ideally without physically attacking the other person.
Edit: And enjoy living in an incredibly safe country where the vast majority of people will apologize rather than escalate and will do almost anything to avoid direct confrontation.
For Jlifers it solely depends on if you MMA skills or not.
Personally I hit a chikan multiple times out of adrenaline, admitted it to the police and nothing came of it. I didn’t get in trouble. They didn’t care at all, didn’t discuss it further, didn’t flinch when I said it, nothing. So I assume it’s fine if you’re 100% a complete victim of a random attack, and it’s not like you started a drunken fight with somebody, or escalated a verbal altercation egging somebody on to become physical or something like that. I also physically grabbed and dragged chikan to the station staff before and got into 0 trouble for doing that as well, for the record.
I’m sure 99% of the stories you hear of people getting in trouble for punching somebody were because it wasn’t self defense at all (a lot of people have a pretty broad definition of self defense, “a guy called me a dirty gaijin and I hit him! It was self defense!”) most are probably drunken fights, verbal fights escalating, etc. stuff you could have just walked away from but CHOSE to escalate further. Kinda makes me angry women are deterred from self defense because of comments like that when it’s fine in actual self defense. My case wasn’t even really “self defense” since it’s not like my life was in danger or he was physically hurting me, but I was a complete victim with no culpability in what happened to me.
As far as I understand it you can a) try to escape b) protect yourself from being injured. I don’t think you can attack your attacker as self defense. Think of self defense as non-violent de-escalation and you’re in the right ballpark
Avoid fights. The cops will just screw you over, and often fuck over the victims of crimes, not help them. but of course, protect yourself first, but I would legit NOT go to the police, just defend yourself and flee.
I understand if someone does break into your house .. you can use any mean’s including violence…
The three words you want to remember are unavoidable, instinctive and proportional.
Unavoidable: Don’t get into physical alteractions you can easily remove yourself from
Instinctive: Can’t be premeditated; if someone is breaking into your house, grabbing the bedside lamp and hitting the invader with it is going to be seen with a lot more leniency than going to the kitchen to get a knife to stab them
Proportional: You can’t go overboard with the threat posed to you – if someone is throwing punches at you you could probably punch them back, maybe even knock them out, but if you keep hitting them when they’re disabled, or you pull a weapon on them, that’s no longer proportional
In a nutshell, get off the X.
That means that if you can get away from them, that’s what you do. It’s not just the law, it’s the smart move every time. The goal is to not get hurt, and the best way to do that is to put distance between yourself and the threat.
If that’s not possible, violence is acceptable to a level of what it takes to protect yourself. e.g. if they’re down after you connect with a haymaker, you don’t get to curb-stomp them. If someone punches you and is walking away, while it may be the moral thing to lay them out with a donkey punch to the back of the head, it’s over and above, and illegal. If someone slaps you and is screaming in your face on the train, you don’t get to stab them with a pocketknife, but you can probably get away with a quick throat punch that will both neutralize the threat and shut them up.
Be aware that martial arts training can work against you in the aftermath. If you’re a BJJ black belt, you can get away with a submission hold, but if you tear their arm out of the socket, or put them lights-out with a rear naked choke, you might go to jail… It can be considered a deadly weapon if over-used.
If someone is accosting someone else, you can also intervene, but like before…to a level required to stopping the violence. If you walk up behind the person, grab them in a Full-Nelson, dragon-hook their legs and pile drive their face into the concrete, you’re going to jail if you don’t disappear quickly.
HTH. I spent a lot of time with Japanese cops when I was young.
They have two sets of law in Japan. Anyone who had to deal with this situation knows all to well. Most Japanese will get to freely walk away from this situation and you’ll still have hours of conversations and possibly compensation to pay out.
You don’t want to have anything to do with fighting, defending or helping another.
Don’t fight, period!
Crippler crossface is your best option
I don’t know if I’m allowed to post this but here goes.
I got into a fight at a Japanese club back in 2006. It was a dance club in butt-fuck Urawa. Anyway, this complete wannabe hard-ass started shoving and punching at me from behind. He was going hard and what I initially thought was a joke ended up being pretty serious. Apparently he had told his friends of his plan because they had their flip-phones out.
I had at least 20cm and 40kg on this guy and was able to wrestle him to the ground basically instantly. After a couple of clumsy punches to his head, when I got the upper hand in the fight his friends pulled me off.
Club owner called the police, they came. I barely spoke any Japanese at that time but the cop was able to understand my broken Japanese (I think I said 彼はアタックしました。) I have absolutely no idea what he and his friends told the cops, but seeing as he was Japanese there’s a good chance that he basically admitted to attacking me.
Cops took down my statement, kicked us both out of the club, and had us go our separate ways. As it turns out they could simply not be assed to process us and get to the bottom of what happened.
I think it really just depends on the cops and the situation. Again, in butt-fuck Urawa, I don’t think they wanted to do the paperwork. But I’ve seen one other fistfight that led to the cops coming and it too seemed to be resolved with the cops sending everyone home.
Incidents that occur on rail property can sometimes be “mediated” inside the stationmaster offices. They will separate you and basically interogate each of you for what happened. After that you might have to shake hands and be on your way. In my case I was trying to break up a scuffle between an old vs young slaryman. Frustratingly once I got in between them the old man ran off and then the young guy tried to fight me.
If I recall in Japan in order for it to be self defense 正当防衛 you have to had made an honest attempt to run away before hitting them.
I had a guy try to grope me on the train. I’m also a dude btw. I warned him 3x loud enough that I got the whole train car’s attention. I wanted everyone to know I had told this guy to stop in case it became a fight. He wouldn’t stop so I shoved him pretty hard, then kept shoving him to the next car and told him if he came back into this car I would deck him.
He didn’t come back and I never got in trouble.
So maybe before you deck someone try shoving them and see how serious they are? I dunno 😂. My ex-gf punched a guy on the train and dragged his ass to the staff/police. She didn’t get in any trouble.
But if your life is danger getting in trouble is a problem a for later.
Ask a bunch of not lawyers a question about the interpretation and application of law = this thread.
No. Just no. Don’t touch, don’t hit. Don’t do jack. Run if you can.
I have seen guys go through stuff with either a bored look on their face or with a smile as someone else hit into it with them. These guys were clearly able to drop the aggressive party but held back.(in both cases everyone was Japanese). Basically of they knew not throw a punch then I know you shouldn’t throw one.
I knew a guy who came to Japan to study martial arts. He saw a Japanese guy beating his girlfriend in the street and stepped in. He pushed the guy who toppled over and fell back and hit is head on the curb and died.
Since he had some training in martial arts the prosecution were calling for a murder charge. In the end he got manslaughter but still spent a few years in a Japanese jail.
If you are not party to an argument and you step in, even if you are saving someone else, you are the aggressor in the eyes of the law in Japan. If you are the non-Japanese party and the police are involved you are at an disadvantage.
Another guy I knew was lucky. He beat up a chimpira who picked a fight with him. The thug was known to the police and there were witnesses that vouched that the Japanese guy started it. The police brought in the Japanese guy and made him apologise on hands on knees to the guy who had beaten him. The police said “You are a bad man. But he is a worse man”. And let the foreigner free. They did warn the foreigner that he was now known to them and that he should go home before he got into trouble.
My advice is to live your life in such a way that you don’t end up in a Japanese jail. If that means walking away from injustice or leaving Japan because trouble always seems to seek you out. It’s better than a serving time in Japan.