Let me explain. I lived in Japan for 3.5 years as an ALT. I’m fairly confident in conversational Japanese. I passed the N3 level JLPT in Japan in 2017. I’ve been back in the US for 5.5 years though. Would’ve been back to Japan sooner, but Covid put those plans on hold.
Anyways, I recently interviewed with a scout regarding a hotel front desk position in Kyoto. I have years of front desk/office admin experience, but my god, this interview was probably the fastest Japanese I’d experienced in my life. You know those disclaimers they give you at the end of drug commercials where they talk really fast in English? It was basically that, but for an hour nonstop with this recruiter.
I took the N2 exam last December and failed by two points. I scored a 50 in listening so I wasn’t surprised when I understood most of this interview with the recruiter. But being in America for so long has made my Japanese speaking skills rusty as fuck. I couldn’t answer a single question sufficiently enough without her having to essentially interpret what I really wanted to say. After that hour-long interview I was exhausted as fuck and completely demotivated.
I scheduled another interview later this week with the actual company. Frankly, I don’t think I have what it takes Japanese-wise, but I’m going through with the interview anyways. I asked the recruiter for a list of questions in Japanese and they gave me an entire plan for the interview.
All that to say, I have passed practice N2 exams. I consider myself to be at that level, though not officially. And frankly, I don’t understand how anyone even considers this level remotely survivable in a business sense. I guess if you’d been living in Japan for 3-5 years while studying for N2 then maybe you’d survive. In my case, I just don’t know.
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It brings up the ever present debate about the JLPT; how accurate can we claim a language test is when it only measures reading and listening skills?
I also remember back when N1 seemed like this impossible standard that only a few really specially advanced learners could hope to attain- but now know that it’s a spectrum just like every other level of the test. And gather 10 people of the same level and you will see 10 completely different abilities, almost incomparable with one another
I do wish you good luck on your interview though!
First off, I agree with the general sentiment of your post.
That said, realistically speaking, N2 isn’t “business-level Japanese” in the sense of “can immediately function at a Japanese company in any environment and be as capable (or anywhere near that) as a native speaker could”, but rather the bare minimum level at which most Japanese companies will consider hiring you because you theoretically have a foundation of knowledge where — along with time, effort, and experience — you’ll be able to “hold your own” and not be a burden on your co-workers or the office as a whole.
Like you say, no one with any actual work experience in Japan would ever suggest that N2 means you’ll be ready to kick ass in a Japanese work environment from day one.
Hey first thing remember to go easy on yourself in case you feel defeated. Learning a new language is not easy and it’s why maybe Japanese fail to pick up English successfully. Shoe on the other foot 💡.
Ive completed N4 and I constantly go to interviews in Japan – my comprehension probably is not close to yours but I can perform completely interviews successful and have had offers.
My key to success was to research the interview process, common questions, practicing answering a, listening for key words (as I also struggle with Keigo and full speed Japanese), and using Chat gpt.
Finally your potential employers are also human and know you are not native Japanese. Phrases like “すみませんちょっと早いから,も一度ゆっくり話せもらえませか？” and “私の第一言語は英語だから、日本語の間違いをさせればだごめんなさい” go miles.
I had several Japanese only interviews late last year. Firstly with recruiters then the hiring managers over a zoom call. I have to say, a couple went all out blazing but for the most part they were very understanding of Japanese language ability so didn’t talk too fast. I think it depends.
I’ve mostly considered JLPT a test of fluency, but not related to business which requires proper keigo skills and a ton of specialized vocabulary. I know some jobs ask for N2 or N1, but there is actually a business Japanese test that would prepare a person better if that language is needed on the job.
I do think that if you’re N2, you might not have the language skills suited to the job at the time of hire, but you’d be high enough to pick up much of the needed vocabulary within a month or two of actual working. Whether the person hiring would have that sort of insight is debatable in Japan, but it’s commonly understood when hiring immigrants in Canada (where I’m from).
As an side, I started with a new teacher last year and let them know in advance that I was around N2, but they were surprised at my fluency. Because Chinese people have such a huge advantage from their kanji knowledge, a lot of them manage to pass N2 without actually being able to talk. I’m the opposite. I can talk a ton, but my kanji reading tends to be 75% correct. So from an example like that, I could see a lot of “N2” students not being able to participate whatsoever in an interview, especially if their Japanese is almost entirely classroom Japanese.
Good luck!
Would you be willing to share the list of interview questions? (Either with us here or as a DM). I don’t think my Japanese is up to snuff, but I’ve had some recruiters try to use me to bid on jobs that use Japanese, so I’m trying to prepare 😅
What I’d recommend for you is to listen to a bunch of podcasts/news/Serious Japanese on 1.5x or 2x speed…helps train your brain for situations like these, at least on the listening end
Imo, the JLPT tests abstract knowledge of Japanese, not the ability *to use* Japanese. In that respect it’s ultimately meaningless. Ability to use Japanese is correlated with one’s ability to pass the JLPT, but it’s not 1 to 1. There’s also only one or two questions on the N2/N1 about 尊敬語 and 謙譲語, so you can pass both exams without knowing any true business language (*cough* me). On the flip side there are people working in Japanese offices who can’t pass the N1 to save their lives
One other thing on the domain specific vocabulary- there is also workplace specific vocabulary.
In fact I find changing jobs in japan exhausting not just because of all the new content but the first couple months in a new job always has me on a rapid learning curve on the vocabulary used at that workplace.
This gets better no problem at all -since you hear that new vocabulary all the time it’s gets into the head pretty rapidly but what it means is you may be getting tripped up on the vocabulary you will learn soon in the interview. So once you start it would get easier for sure.
u/OfficiallyRelevant, you are absolutely correct. I have been living in Japan for a long time – actually settled down here. JLPT N2 does not mean business Japanese at all.
It all depends on the person, some people even with N3 may have great Japanese skills – they just didn’t go for certifications. And some with N2 can’t even engage in a normal conversation for 15 minutes.
It all depends on the person, some people, even with N3 may have great Japanese skills – they just didn’t go for certifications. And some with N2 can’t even engage in a normal conversation for 15 minutes.
Did you actually pass the N2? You said you failed it, but then that you _kinda_ consider yourself to have passed it?
Language proficiency is about practice and theory. If you were in the US, you missed out on the practice bit so no wonder you feel rusty. You are rusty. Don’t blame that on the exam though – especially if you didn’t pass it.
there was a “cure dolly” video (highly recommended btw) that I watched recently that told a story about how in JLPT N1 exams her fluent friend went to one and noticed that people in the exam could not respond to the exam conductors in japanese when greeted and spoken to about the rules and help they can have.
People who think that passing N2 makes you “business ready” will be in for the biggest shock of their lives lol.
Since you’re an ALT.
Do you think Eiken pre-1 is good enough to be considered business level? Most of the times it’s not. Even tho comparable I would consider pre-1 higher than n2.
All these tests do it’s just testing your book knowledge.
My Japanese sucks but I’ve met people with n2 that can’t even have a conversation.
> those disclaimers they give you at the end of drug commercials where they talk really fast in English
Found the American
I can probably pass an N3 if I pretend hard enough at my current level. I can understand a lot. That being said, if you ask me any question outside of “どこから来ました?” I’d be hard pressed to answer it at all. I can’t speak to save my life.
World language teacher here.
Every test for gauging linguistic ability has a drawback somewhere, if only for two things – insufficient sampling and test anxiety.
No test will be fully comprehensive and no test can test the full scope of someone’s ability. You can get lucky and have all of the test questions fall within your range of expertise, or you could be extremely unlucky. You can take a test which focuses on one or two skills that you excel at, or not. The result could be a biased score – BUT hopefully it paints a realistic portrait of where that person is. If they write well, they should speak well.
As for test anxiety, there is often a lot of pressure on the student to do well. A curveball, real or perceived, can utterly destroy confidence and render a score lower than anticipated – even for a good student who does well normally. I’ve seen it happen. The student participated in class, does well on assignments and utterly collapses because it’s a high-stakes test.
All of that said, a passing score on the JLPT still covers a rather huge range and we don’t get explanations or breakdowns on our scores.
A pass with a 90 isn’t the same as a pass with 180 or even a 100 or 150. If you got a 180/180 without breaking a sweat, you’re golden. If you barely scraped by with a 90, you will of course continue to struggle. Should this parlay across skills, I’d expect very different speaking abilities from students with each of those outcomes.
I have N1 and I don’t consider myself anywhere near proper business level.
The JLPT test says very little about anyone’s ability to utilize Japanese. I’ve met many who claimed N3 or N2 and couldn’t string a sentence together. I hardly ever use or encounter anything beyond N4 in day to day life.
If you can pass JLPT 1 with solid score, that means you can read and listen to business talk, at least the general stuff, that is spoken in a clear way. It’s quite a lot of knowledge. But that’s far from being able to hear natives correctly the first time, in all situations.
JLPT doesn’t test output at all. Input and comphrehension is the foundation, but output is a separate skill than input. I would consider myself fluent in reading and able to listen decently to YT content, but I still had plenty of difficulty in Japan cause not being able to come up with the word (active recall) and not knowing the natural ways to say things. Can’t overcome lack of IRL exposure and practice.
N 1 doesn’t even. It means you know how to study for a test.
The BJT is more relevant than the JLPT for business. But generally, the company wants you to speak Japanese and ask for N2:
But let’s say you have the N2 perfect score or a J2 level near to J1. You might not have the vocabulary in your field … whether you have N2 or J2
None of the tests are perfect, but it’s better than nothing
Facts.
I passed N2 in 2021 and afterwards I thought, “Wait, that’s it? I still don’t know shit, no way can I work in a fully Japanese environment”
And this is coming from a guy who’s way more confident in his speaking/listening abilities than reading and speaking isn’t even tested.
It all comes down to the fact that the best way to learn a language is to speak it rather than memorizing it.