Hi all, so I’m moving, and found this nice place in Kita-ku, Tokyo, and was about to get it, but today my agent has told me the owner would like for me to sign a document saying that I accept that his name will be registered to the appartement, and will be on the name plate as he hasn’t change his residence adress.
I also am to send with no delay than a week any mail that arrives, with paid envelopes that the apartment management company will provide.
This is a super strange request, I am honestly a bit baffled on what to do, I honestly dont mind sending his mail, if he gets any, but the only reason I could think for him doing this is that he is paying lower resident tax as Kita-ku has a lower one if compared to some other wards.
My question is, has anyone else had a similar request? I worry about the legal implications this could have as I would appear as living with the person. Also would appear like that in the juminhyo.
Below the content of the form that I am supposed to sign, any help will be very welcomed!
Translated with google translate
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We will comply with the following matters when living in this property.
① Receipt and storage of mail addressed to the owner to be delivered to the property. Since the owner has not transferred the resident card, it is in the form of living with the tenant. *If an absentee slip is sent by registered mail, etc., this absentee slip will also be considered as mail.
② Check the mailbox within one week from the previous confirmation date. *The storage period for mail items is one week from the date the absentee slip was posted, and after the period has passed, the mail will be returned to the sender.
③ When receiving a registered mail, etc., if the owner confirms that he or she resides, do not reply that he or she does not live there.
④ When you receive a residence confirmation postcard from the post office, be sure to fill in the name including the owner. ⑤ Immediately return the received mail addressed to the owner to Trust Investment Co., Ltd., the management company.
*Return envelopes will be provided by Trust Investment Co., Ltd. If there is only one return envelope left in stock, we will replenish it, so please contact us. *Please contact the management company if you have any questions, such as not being able to return it using the self-addressed envelope.
In some cases, we may ask you to use a different method.
⑥ When displaying a nameplate, it must be jointly signed with the owner. (In that case, we will prepare it, so please contact us)
*Please do not remove the owner’s nameplate even if you do not display it.
⑦ The above measures ① to ⑥ must be continued during the period of occupancy. *Failure to comply with the above may lead to trouble.
*Please make sure that all tenants, not just contract holders, are aware of this.
.Do not file an objection about being subject to contract cancellation if you continue to fail to comply with the above measures
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38 comments
This is super shady.
I’d refuse, find another place, and demand any deposit back and perhaps even compensation depending on when you were supposed to move (e.g., if you’ve given notice to move out from your current place and now must find another place urgently).
If they refuse to return deposits etc. just threaten legal action citing the above and see how quickly they fold.
Nah this is shady. No one does this. I would get out and get your deposits back.
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Great excuse to go looking for somewhere new. I could only foresee this causing mountains of headaches, problems and general uneasiness.
There are some other reasons he could be doing this.
A common one is – in Tokyo if you take care of an elderly parent by yourself you can get some government benefit to help pay for the care. But if you have a second person living at your place then you lose part of that benefit. Since the second person at your house is supposed to help with the care.
So maybe the person landlord wants to have his juminhyou in a different place from where he is living (presumably with a partner) to get this government money.
Could you get in trouble for this? I …dunno. Maybe not but still seems sketchy. I’d likely not do it but I am super curious just how much of a break it is in the rent. Like is he offering half price rent or something?
The owner might still be paying his home loan but since home loan’s low interest in Japan requires you to live there, the owner is trying to have his cake and eat it too. The owner should switch to business loan with higher interest if their plan is to rent the place.
I feel it strange that the real estate agency actually okay this with the owner. They’re trying to abuse a loophole here. You might be deemed a complicit of fraud if you choose to do this. Try to ask the agency why the owner is insisting this. Though I would try to look for other place as well.
Not quite the same thing, but when I first came to Japan, I lived with a Japanese friend, and registered my address where he lived.
Perhaps I didn’t understand enough Japanese at that time, but it seemed the only way to have two (or more) people registered at his address, was that one name had to be the “head of the household” (世帯主), and everyone else as members of that household.
I do recall that caused a number of issues – one of them was my NHI at that time was linked “under” him, and if I recall, my premiums were tied to his income. And, once or twice when I used the card, he had to sign off on it; amongst other things.
When I finally moved out to my own place, we had a pretty hard time unwinding all of that as well.
Definitely would not do the same thing with a landlord.
This is a pain in the ass and will cause you grief for sure. He is basically proposing that you will run a mail forwarding company for free. People pay for services to handle their mail.
This definitely not normal.
Yes he’s left his 住民票 at that address.
It’s unusual and could cause issues about who exactly the 世帯主 is on paperwork. Avoid.
No. Don’t sign anything. Walk away.
This smells a lot like conspiracy to commit fraud, but even if it isn’t there’s a mass of things that could go wrong ranging from minor irritations to major issues.
For example:
– Hooking up utilities (electricity, water, gas, internet). Are they going to be in this person’s name or yours? It could cause confusion, delays in service, etc.
– Delivery guys finding your apartment. If someone else’s name is on the nameplate the expect endless and repeated confusion as they go, “Hmm… nope, I’m looking for Blue2526. I must have the wrong apartment”.
– Mail? Where will your mail go? Won’t the post office think it is odd that two different people’s mail is going to the same box? The post office may seem friendly and bland, but in a lot of countries they’re actually an arm of government and report suspicious things to the police.
On this note, what happens if someone mails a few grams of something illegal to this address. You’re the one who is going to be picking up that mail, sticking it in a second envelope and mailing it on to a second address. Remember that in Japan the crime is possession. You’ll be the one holding the envelope when the policeman steps around the corner and slaps on the cuffs.
– How will you register your home address with the city hall? They’re going to see that there’s someone else registered as resident at that address. This is going to have ripple effects, for example without the certificate from the city hall you’re going to have trouble renewing your visa.
– Who **actually** owns the property? You’ve now got the agent, this second party (who may or may not be the owner)… but who may actually just be a tenant who may be illegally subletting to you. Your contract would be invalid, and good luck getting any of your money back (where would you even start?!)
This just seems incredibly suspicious, and something that you should just walk away from.
No, cancel that. Don’t walk. Run.
A couple of other things:
* If you have to say that he is living there then they are demanding you lie for him as part of the contract. That can’t be legal.
* What if debt collectors or shady characters come to the house and demand to see him? Maybe nothing will happen but it’s not something you want to deal with.
* The police quite often visit once a year to check who is resident. (Whether they actually have the right to is another matter.) What would you say to them?
I’ve seen some real estate agents do some shady dealings in Japan. Prior to getting married, the agency said I could live in the apartment with my future wife’s name on it (I was in between jobs at the time). They assured us everything would be fine. Little did they know that the apartment owner lived right in front of the apartment and was confused AF that a foreigner was living there and not a Japanese lady. Blew up and I think that agent got fired from his job.
So he doesn’t declare the rent as taxable income.
>*failure to comply with the above May lead to trouble
Lol cheeky fuckers. You got all this in writing….My reply would be “let me just go to city hall with this document and see if this all good first”
Because I am sure they would like to know if someone (the landlord) is registered at placeX (this place), when in fact they actually reside at placeY (where ever the landlord wants you to send documents) as the base of their life
These shady dealings are the reason why many professions get a bad name – Real estate agents, car salesmen, recruiters, tax accountants, lawyers, prostitutes
Another possible motive is to make it easier to evict you. Tenants have strong rights in Japan. If he remains a tenant he can enter the apartment and change the locks at anytime. (I think the home loan interest rate is more likely though).
I would only agree to it with a sizable discount. This is serious leverage and highly irregular to ask of a random tenant. You are his nephew from Oita-ken. Otherwise, fark off. What are your liabilities If something official gets delayed? What do you say when the ward office pays a visit? Or the local constabulary?
The owner is doing this because he is paying his low interest home loan which requires that the main residence of the property is the loan taker himself. If he is leasing this place out to you, legally he needs to switch to business loan that has a higher interest. If he gets caught he certainly can go to jail for fraud.
The real estate agency is deliberately helping to cover this up because they most likely sold this place to the owner as an investment property.
I have seen this kinda interest fraud many times especially to those 1R/1K condo investment properties. Do not sign anything and walk away.
The answer might be car related.
You have to have a verified dedicated parking spot to buy a new car in Japan (weird but true).
If the owner is living somewhere without a dedicated spot they may be using the spot assigned to your apartment on the documentation for the car.
I’m not aware of others, but there may be other similar requirements for other things too.
Walk away. Way too shady to be worth the potential headache.
Nah… looks weird. Don’t do it.
I would walk away and find a new agency, too.
I wouldn’t take the apartment under those circumstances.
DONT SIGN ANYTHING. Its a red flag.
Move on. I would not be willing to participate in this rubbish.
This is literal fraud.
You get tax advantages from buying a house to live in and smaller interest rates that you do not get when you buy an investment property.
Flag meet red. Seriously, as everyone else has pointed out, super shady and you probably should just look elsewhere.
Just folding in with everyone else – don’t accept this – get your deposits & get out. This is 100% fraud waiting to happen, and we’ve had a lot of issues with that over in Adachi. I’d honestly really try to report this to the city or the police.
I would ask them exactly why they want you to lie and possibly break the law for them.
Perhaps ask them, “when the police come over to update their residency information (巡回連絡), am I supposed to lie to the police”?
If they don’t give you a satisfactory answer, I would 100% cancel. Breaking the law is a big sign that they might have problems in other areas also.
Or, if you don’t care about getting your hands dirty, you could always just sign it, and as soon as you move in, report that the person has moved out and but is still using your address. Assuming you have a regular rental contract, your rights as a tenant will trump any illegal stuff they ask you to sign. They can’t exactly sue you for not lying to the police on their behalf, no matter what they got you to sign.
Already everyone is saying the obvious, but I want to point out something:
whether shady or not, agreeing to send all postage within 1 week delay max means that you cannot be absent from your residence more than 1 week and have an unforeseen amount of post fees.
Even if you knew the person or trust them 100%, this is not a good idea.
Something’s awry, Sir.
Look elsewhere.
Uh oh someone wasn’t living in the home he said he was.
The company appears to be a legit company, but as everyone else says, it looks like some form of home loan-related dodginess.
There’s probably also some law against handling other people’s mail that might be brought up if the authorities get involved. Take your cats and run! I know how hard it is to find a good cat place; last rental we had we pretended to only have one – two were technically OK, but the spousal unit gets paranoid about these things…
If it walks like a sketchy duck and talks like a sketchy duck, it’s a sketchy duck.
I’d stay away, this sounds like an expensive headache just waiting to happen.
landlord bought the place off on a juutaku loan and not investment, hence he cant officially rent it out. In reality rent place wont look at it and basically told me “everybody do it”, when i called my bank to ask how to switch it up cuz i m a goody 2 shoes, they told me dont bother if it s temporary.
however they will always actually change the name on the plate and u ll have a normal rent contract, just that officially they shouldnt be able to rent it out….
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This is shady. If you want to add a flavor of chaos in your life, go ahead and sign. If not, avoid.
> his name will be registered to the appartement, and will be on the name plate as he hasn’t change his residence address.
Don’t need to read beyond this. Fuck this guy, this is shady AF, find somewhere else.
agree but only if they lower your rent by 2 -30,000 yen per month.
shake em down OP
Wait but would you still be able to update YOUR resident card with the address? And what if you need a certificate of recidency?