A common feeling among foreigners in Japan I’ve noticed is the longing of fitting in but never being regarded as “part” of the Japanese community no matter how well you can speak Japanese.
I’ve only been living in Japan for about a year. However, coming from South Africa, I’ve always been a minority (being white).
I want to learn the language, love the culture, and I never want to leave, but I literally have no desire to be regarded as Japanese.
Is it really such a big problem when people say they feel excluded?
33 comments
I’ve been living here for five years and I’m very happy I’ll never be Japanese..
Nowhere in Europe will you be considered that country’s nationality after immigrating there either.
Imagine wanting/not wanting to belong to a specific group so much that it becomes your only defining trait
I’ve been here since 2009. Worked full time for a few different companies. I have PR. I speak the language. I’m married to a Japanese man and we have a child; we live in a generational home with his parents. I feel like I’m fully integrated in Japanese society and that’s perfectly enough for me.
Lol, I’ll also never be American or German or British or any European country as an Asian
Yeah, fuck that shit. I’ve been a black sheep my whole life, and I ain’t about to change that now…
Some people need to feel included, and others are happy without it.
I don’t mind being obviously foreign, I’m not offended when the cashier at Cainz says “hello,” and I’m happy to play my part and speak my minuscule Nihongo in return.
But that’s just me. I thrive on adventure, and I get cabin fever very easily. By contrast I have several family members who have never lived *or traveled* outside of our home county – EVER. They thrive with familiarity and something I just don’t understand (ultra neophobia maybe?). They don’t understand how I can move away from home and be happy. I don’t understand how they can avoid traveling for their entire lives 🤷🏻♀️ some of us are just built different.
I don’t mind not being considered Japanese. I’m not. Never will be. I just live here.
I was never considered as one of my birth country’s people either. despite being the same color, I speak the language with an accent – bilingual upbringing, I have an English accent with that language… – , I’m a foot taller than average, and overall never shared the xenophobic, pessimistic, hostile, nationalist world views of the “fellow countrymen”.
I will never be really Japanese even if I get citizenship one day, but I’m treated less like dirt here than my “home” country. I can build myself a life and a future here without my neighbors and family looking for an opportunity to screw me over – and not because they would want what is mine; they just wouldn’t want me to have it either.
getting deported back to that ****hole in case the country pulls some diplomatic bs to piss off Japan is a recurring nightmare of mine.
anyway. just because I will never be really Japanese doesn’t mean that this country cannot feel more home than “home”. I’m at peace with the fact it will not be a 100% harmonious relationship because nowhere would be.
I don’t particularly like my home country but I haven’t thought of being someone else. I’m fine with who I’m. Can’t change it. Won’t change it.
Living in JP for 10+ years. Graduated bachelor here with full JP course. Worked for conservative JP companies. Never had the gaijin treatment. Everyone expect me to act and behave like japanese as I do visually resemble ones. I always despise whether there are gaijins that got that special gaijin treatment. Sorry for the rant…
I mean this isn’t just a japan thing you know.
You can’t be asian if you are an american, even if you learn their language, manner, their lifestyle and live for many decades and you will always be looked at as a foreigner no matter how asian you act. The same goes for any other country you visit as a foreigner.
Just live your life. Don’t stress yourself on trivial things and focus on what you want to do to your life.
I always found that fucking weird when people say that.
Im white, born in the UK. No fucking shit im never going to be Japanese?
My grandmother immigrated to the UK from Ireland young and spent all her life in the UK after and she never considered her self British either.
I really don’t understand what the hell people are on about with that. I don’t particularly want to be considered Japanese either because im not and aren’t ashamed of who i am or anything
I think it is a matter of not being able to influence the discourse in Japan – not even in the smallest things.
I see replies regarding the fact that it is the same pretty much anywhere you go. I do agree – with the caveat that, eg in Europe, immigrants are a massive pain in the ass for governments and citizens alike (see the rise of right wing governments – it is not by chance). Clearly not the “right” type of influence/publicity to have – but at least they are on the agenda (wether they have conscience of this or not that’s another topic all together).
In a nutshell it’s not the wanting to integrate that I see not fulfilled in Japan – it’s the wanting to matter that creates issues.
well, even half Japanese people have the same struggles.
even if you speak, read, and write perfect japanese, know every custom and/or cultural norms, if they learn that you’re only half japanese(esp. if you don’t look japanese), people won’t really recognize you as a japanese citizen. It’s okay though it has its own benefits as well
That’s just part of moving to a country with a mostly homogeneous population. It’s the same in many parts of Europe to the point where many grandchildren of immigrants who came from former colonies (and thus were always overseas citizens of the ‘mother country’) aren’t even seen as belonging in their home country.
Fellow South African, or should I say Namibian.. lived abroad in 6 different countries and was a foreigner everywhere. However in none of those countries in Asia 4( Thailand, China, South Korea, Japan ) did someone threaten to kill me based on my race. Which happened more than once in both Namibia and South Africa. Also in my first year in Japan I purchased a bicycle for 150 000 yen. Still ride the same bicycle eight years later. At this point it being stolen seems unfathomable.
Applied for naturalization and hope it gets approved early next year. I’ll still be a minority, but if not being treated as an ethnically Japanese person bothers you, you should go for holiday in SA or just phone a friend there and enquire about daily life. Small price to pay for all the other positives live offers here.
Prepping for the downvotes but imo, it’s pretty hard for people who come from cultures and systems which are inclusive or for “their people”. Intentionally or otherwise
To me, this often means caucasian people. For the first time, they’re in a place where they’re the “minority”
Because for a lot of minorities, we’ve lived a lifetime of this so we’re sufficiently numb or used to that exclusion. Systematic, culturally, socially, etc
For a lot of caucasian folks, they haven’t had this life (Though gods some will “ummm actually” a STRETCH to make it seem like they have).
Which means their FIRST real exposure of it is when they’re older and in Japan! That’s jarring af! It’s like you never having to worry about money to hearing about the Hindenburg the day after investing all your money in zeppelins! Suddenly what you could rely on consciously or (often) otherwise doesn’t work anymore!
Was sitting with (I’m from Australia but Indian presenting) a Trinidadian and African American listening to another Caucasian American who hadn’t gotten something go his way because he wasn’t Japanese rant about “JUSTICE” and “HONOR”. I turned to the other guys – first Day that ends in y eh? The Trinidadian goes – same same while the African American just rolls his eyes and nods
Should it be this way? Absolutely Fing not. It’s still a strange thing to demand of the world tbh. Particularly knowing others haven’t been able to for much (Arguably) more legit reasons
Been here 27 years. I’ve met to meet the foreigner who actually thinks he’s going to blend in to the level he’s just another Japanese. My close friend who teaches at the world headquarters of a major martial art, speaks fluent Japanese.. doesn’t expect to just be another person here. Another acquaintance who actually got Japanese citizenship herself talks about how it opens doors but doesn’t change minds. No one thinks they are going to be Japanese unless it’s some anime obsessed kid straight out of uni who is more into the Japan of his mind not the Japan of realty.
After one year, I don’t think you have a good handle on all the non-Japanese living in Japan. Everyone chooses their own level of perceived integration from zero to 100, but I doubt anyone thinks they will fit in perfectly and be accepted anywhere in Japan. In one’s own country, 100% assimilation is not even possible.
Japanese citizens moving across the country often don’t fit in if they were not born where they live. You can’t be considered a Tokyoite until your family has Iived consecutively in Tokyo proper for three complete generations. Kyoto and Kanazawa are well known for being friendly or at least polite but remain at arm’s length from “outsiders.” Everyone carves out as much as they want or can.
I’m half Japanese and American(white) and I grew up in Japan but I get treated like I’m a foreigner than when I joined the military here in the us I get treated as a Asian.
I’m lost.
I have lived in Japan for around 15 years, and have lived in many different areas during that time, currently Tokyo,.
My experience has always been very good with each community, I have always felt accepted and that I feel I fit in well. People have always been personable and kind to me, especially after having children.
Japanese people are aware that you are from a different culture and will be more understanding of ” bad ” behavior than if another japanese person was doing the same thing.
In my experience, anything that I might consider to be on the side of racism is pretty rare. Like maybe 1 or 2 times in the whole 15 years.
That being said, you may feel less easily accepted if you visually look more out of the norm, such as visible tattoos, or the way you walk, sit, move, is on the ” rough ” side.
But japanese people with tattoos etc, are treated that same way, so it’s a difference in cultural norms not a racism thing.
You will likely receive a lot of staring especially from children, but this is just curiosity, since you are uncommon.
I have also had good experiences overall with the government and has treated me very well when it came to more difficult things, but sometimes there are odd policy differences for Japanese and non-Japanese.
For example, Japanese people are sent a reminder to renew their ” my number card ” when it is near expiration.
But non-Japanese are not sent a reminder.
this is not that big of a problem as long as you pay attention to the dates, And there is no major issue if you miss renewing it, except normally renewal is free, but you have to pay a small fee if you exceed the expiration date.
But the accomodations and policies the government may have for you, will differ based on your city and prefecture.
The only thing I can think of that was needlessly frustrating not being Japanese was the banks.
From what I hear it used to be much easier, but they had a problem with foreigners making bank accounts and then selling them to people overseas so they could use the account for sketchy or illegal things.
So although there may be good reason for the added difficulty, there is probably a better way to go about it that would be less frustrating for honest people.
Also it’s been many years since I opened my bank account, so maybe things have gotten better?
Anyways, these are the thoughts that came to mind from my experiences, thank you for reading through this long comment, and I hope you also have good experiences in Japan.
Edit: reading your post one more time, I realize I misread one of your sentences, so my comment is probably slightly off the exact topic you were looking for, but I’ll leave it as it is on the chance the info might be relevant to you or others anyways.
I really don’t understand why people want to be Japanese. Especially some white dude that tries so hard it becomes so cringe. Don’t lose your identity and forget who you are.
Thank God I won’t
Imagine being Japanese half and raised abroad but looking completely Japanese. I will never belong but somehow they have the expectations of me being japanese and I never got that gaijin card. I left for Middle East and never looked back, never will. I never need to belonged there. Japan has been good for a bit, while I transitioned but it could never be my end point.
Speak the language, follow the cultural norms, and get involved in your local community and you’ll be accepted.
I’m Japanese-American, and I experience the very thing you are talking about. However, at least in my opinion, they are not fully obligated to see me as Japanese no matter how well I speak Japanese etc. Because, I’m a Japanese-American. Who cares anyway, really. I’m me, they’re friendly enough, I have friends in Japan, that is all I care about.
I’ve come to the suspicion lately that when people are worried about ‘fitting in’ they are actually asking whether they could land a Japanese romantic partner.
Grown up people actually believe they will “become” japanees by living in Japan?
What kind of neck beard post is this anyway?
I wouldn’t want to be considered Japanese, but I do want to be taken seriously when I talk about issues that affect me as someone living in Japan. However, in many cases you will be given a “you’re not Japanese so it might be difficult for you to understand.” Etc.
The good news: My Japanese friends and company treat me like everyone else.
The bad news: See the good news.
Cliché response incoming, but Anime, Games and Escapism mentality.
The ones that desire to be Japanese and use that as motivation to post on how “non-inclusive” Japan can be, have no idea that the standards are the same elsewhere around the world.
Japan is their first place abroad and they haven’t sampled other countries where they’ll get the same treatment. Its just true.
Somehow, a certain number of predominantly English speaking immigrants have been fed the lie that they will come to Japan and all of their troubles, social awkwardness and their identity of origin can be wished away.
But Japan is just another society and its a foreign country. They will consider foreigners as foreign and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people will fight tooth and nail to deny their identity because the country they came from told them that they can be anything they want to be. The world has never worked that way, unfortunately.
Japan is an ethno-state and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit. Yamato people killed, conquered and colonized every nearby land / island and the “Japanese way” they imposed is standard still today.
As a foreigner, you won’t ever be Japanese, because people here can’t disassociate ethnicity / native socio-culture from identity.
Don’t get bothered by it. It is what it is and Japan will have to bear the consequences.