Are people from collectivistic cultures like Japan more susceptible to cults?

19 comments

1. I have the feeling it’s more the lack of strong organized religions.

   Edit: You may find the discussion in [this recent r/japanlife thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/12skks3/why_exactly_are_cults_so_prevalent_here/) interesting.

2. I feel that Japanese people tend to act in a collectivism manner when they are already part of a collective, may that be family, workplace or just as Japanese citizens, but are very cautious when it come to letting a new collective enter one’s life. It can be a very “They are they, we are we” society

3. What is a cult, other than a rather extreme religious or other belief?

   There are plenty of countries where huge swathes of the population are like this, the only reason they aren’t considered cults is because it’s so prevelant that they are considered mainstream.

4. A quick Google suggests there are over 10,000 operating cults in the USA, and my sense is a “successful” cult is a combination of an individualistic and charismatic leader and individuals/followers who *lack* a sense of belonging in society, so the answer may be more nuanced than that.

   And most cults are not acting for the benefit of the group, but for the benefit of the group *leader*, they’ve just been groomed and conditioned not to realize that.

5. >collectivistic culture

   Oof. I always figure that when these words get trotted out, we’re in for a bumpy ride.

   Now you make a better effort than most people who use those words, so I don’t want to completely discount what you wrote. You even went so far as to try to define your terms. You said collectivist cultures are characterized by:

   * emphasis on the community over the individual
   * social pressures to not stand out from the crowd

   You say these are also characteristics of cults. I think that’s absolutely the wrong way to think about it. Cults are notorious for hierarchical leadership where one individual stands out over the crowd. One of the criteria that I’ve heard used to distinguish cults from religions is cults often push their members to isolate from non-cult members of the community. Probably the most extreme example we can think of is the Aum Shinrikyo. It strains credibility to suggest that “community over individual” is a characteristic of cults when the most infamous cult in the country were a bunch of terrorists who attacked the subway with sarin gas. If cults are to succeed because of social pressures not to stand out from the crowd, why would Jehova’s Witnesses stand at the same intersection near the station handing out flyers? Or as an example a little past its prime, the [Pana-Wave Laboratory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pana_Wave) went around covering everything in white sheets to deflect electromatic waves to they could capture a beloved seal and prevent the end of the world. Does that sound like a group that is especially worried about being the nail that sticks up and gets hammered down?

   This is what happens when you try to reduce a society of complex, unique, interesting people down to a single attribute and then define whatever is noteworthy in their culture in terms of that attribute. Japan’s relationship with new religious movements has lots of causes and lots of factors. And I suspect that when we get down to it, the reasons Japanese people join cults aren’t terribly different from reasons anyone anywhere in the world joins cults.

   I also suspect an honest analysis would show Japanese people don’t get involved with cults that much more often than people in most countries do. Most Japanese new religious movements look like cults to westerners because their aesthetics aren’t what we’re used to seeing in a religions. Look at a Happy Science center and it’s obvious something is off from what we as westerners expect – too many different aesthetics are mashed together in ways that don’t make sense to our eyes trained by a lifetime of looking at western buildings. But transplant a random Japanese person from Tokyo to a backwoods Mississippi small town Southern Baptist church, especially one with a short enough history that they didn’t inherit a classically-shaped church with a steeple from some older congregation… don’t you think they’d have the same experience that something isn’t right?

   Especially Americans need to be careful tossing around “cult” carelessly in Japan – Protestants have a tendency to just let anyone who calls themselves “Christian” magically evade cult status, but you’ve got churches where people play with snakes as tests of faith, churches where people refuse to engage with the medical system, churches where people isolate themselves from anyone in their community who isn’t a member of their church and who hang on their charismatic minister’s words so tightly they can drive themselves into ecstatic seizures and speaking in tongues. How is that not *pretty culty?*

   And that’s leaving aside all of the belief systems that have been invented out of the Q-ANON movement. There’s someone who calls themself the Queen of Canada claiming that at the appointed hour John F. Kennedy will emerge from the UFO and save us from wicked vaccinators. They don’t have a single geographic meeting house, but they function as a cult through online communication.

   Japanese people are no less complicated and messy than people anywhere else in the world. They join cults for the same reasons people everywhere do.

6. America is definitely the opposite of collectivist, but there are still problems with cults. The former president has one that involves a significant amount of the population. It would be interesting to see some really thorough studies on the viability of cults in different countries/cultures but I feel like there is more to it than just how a country’s population views themselves as individuals in relation to the collective.

7. If you consider MAGA to be a cult (which I do), then 40% of the population of the self-proclaimed most individualistic country in the world is in a cult.

8. As USA is typically not considered collectivist but is overrun with cults, isn’t the answer obvious?

9. Explain to me how a mega church in Texas isn’t a “cult” just because it claims to be Christianity? Or Mormons?
   Those are most definitely cults and have millions of followers.

10. How about the US, evangelical Christians, Trump supporters, QAnon etc.

11. It’s an interesting idea, but what’s the difference between a cult and a gang?

    So all humans are tribal. We are loyal to our group, and are willing to ignore the shortcomings of our fellow members, demonize and dehumanize non-members, go along with lies if it helps group unity, and defend our tribe members verbally or violently.

    This is common in all humans.

    But “collectivism” which is strongest in O3 haplogroup people is a different kind of tribalism. To give an example, Africans, which are strongly tribal, have an infinite number of tribes and those tribes are normally quite small. Not only is Africa a grand mosaic of tribes, but there’s tribes within tribes. On the other hand, China, Japan, and Korea have enormous populations with a multitude of languages and cultures, yet manage to have remarkably consistent political organizations. The CCP has been ruling China for 75 years, 1.4 billion people, with no real opposition. (I know there has been some, but never anything serious, never a mass revolt). Japan has had one party rule for decades. North Koreans live in horrendous conditions under a dictator but don’t revolt.

    So what’s the difference here? Well, I say it’s that tribalism is blind loyalty while collectivism is fear of being different. And fear of being different leads to consensus and monoculture. No doubt an trait that helped them survive winters, as fighting over scarce resources during winter is a good way to get the whole tribe killed. Infighting is a bad thing when large groups of people must collect and store resources for winter and then not kill each other when the snow comes. In Africa, it doesn’t matter because the food is always around, so being opportunistic pays.

    So the question of whether the collectivist trait leads to cults. No, in the sense that, collectivism pushes the group towards a status quo. There’s always a draw to not be different. And by and large, cults in Japan are filled with people who are otherwise Japanese in every discernable way.

    But yes, in the sense that, if people are raised in a cult and know nothing else, they are easily sucked into it and not rebellious in nature. North Korea is basically one giant cult with few men like Socrates.

12. I think it’s exactly the opposite. Religion in general, and cults in particular, appeal to alienated people who feel a deep absence of meaning and social connection. Ergo, cultures that emphasize social cohesion are less susceptible to cults than cultures that emphasize the individual.

    disclosure edit: I’m an American who comes from an ardently religious background.

13. Japan isn’t as collectivistic as you seem to think it is. According to Hofstede Insights (which I realize isn’t the be all end all authority on this topic but is nonetheless one of the leading researchers), Japan is actually rated as middle of the pack in terms of degree of individualism, so by your logic cults would be just as if not more prevalent in half the countries around the world.

14. If we can group cults, pyramid schemes, and new, obscure religious groups together, then yes, I think Japan’s culture definitely plays a role in why they are so prevalent.

    Despite never really seeing anything like it in the UK, I’ve known multiple people in Japan who have been sucked in by these small religious groups. And they definitely prey on those who feel like “outsiders”, the lonely, those going through trauma. You’d presume that the increased pressure to conform would lead to more people becoming insecure about their lack of ability to do so.

    The sad thing is that 90% of them revolve around extorting money from their members. And I’ve experienced that firsthand with a family member on my Japanese wife’s side.

    I don’t think a lot of people realise quite how toxic it can all become, so they keep popping up. I mean, look at that dude who killed Shinzo Abe. Once the truth came out about his motives, he received waves of sympathy, despite what he had done.

    People on here will always bring America into the discussion, but I always think that America itself is too unique to compare against. Compared to most Western countries, it is very religious and very segregated. It has been since it was founded. On the ground it appears a very individualist culture, but you could probably make a case for the opposite tbh. It really doesn’t surprise me that the US has tons of cults too.

15. The US is the country that most prides itself on freedom, and one of its major political parties is literally a cult of personality. Likewise, way too many people in the US but into arguably THE biggest cult; religion.

    I’d venture to say countries like Japan, where you’re supposed to follow the societal norms and not create waves, would actually be less susceptible.

16. No, just look at US elections or the Christian denominations flavours of the month

17. Than the US? No way.

18. Can’t have a cult without a cult leader and a cult leader is the most self centered person you’ll ever know.

19. Well, I think it’s more relatable to how you educate people. In Japan, it’s kind of “copy, paste, don’t ask questions, don’t try to change anything”. When you lack criticism, how can you understand you’re being trapped in something problematic?

    So, if you start talking to the bad person, you may end up somewhere bad without realising. Even more risky when you’re not the ideal little soldier of the society and even your family rejects you.