I am currently a student living in Japan (originally from America) and just got a really good job offer from a company here that I love. I really like Japan, the food, culture, vibe, everything, but I’m honestly scared about the thought of moving here permanently and want your advice. I’ve heard that bullying is really bad for foreign kids growing up in Japan and I don’t want to subject any future family that I have to that. I also know well, that assimilating as a non-Japanese person is basically impossible here since being “Japanese“ has nothing to do with your nationality and all to do with your ethnicity. While I have had an absolutely amazing time living here so far, I know that living PERMANENTLY and working in Japan will be very different from being a student here. Anyone that initially moved to Japan on this sub please let me know what you think and your experience in Japan. I want to feel like life here would be great, but I am afraid of becoming isolated and stuck in a country where I don’t belong.
NOTE: I don’t know much Japanese, only the basics and survival Japanese. I do plan on learning more though.
31 comments
The world is a tough place. Some places are tougher than others.
Your chances of having a successful life after immigrating anywhere will depend on your ability to navigate the easy AND difficult aspects of the new society you’re moving to.
One thing that doesn’t help you deal with immigrating is coming to an echo-chamber like here with a bunch of assumptions about what life is like without actually experiencing it yourself. It won’t make a soft cushion for your landing. You’ll just alienate yourself before you’ve even given it a chance.
Ehh… It’s your life man – Give it a go **if you feel like it sounds fun**; Otherwise don’t.
You can always **quit down the line** if you find out it doesn’t fit you after all.
Japan is Japan, and just like anywhere else – There are different people with different mindsets and ideas; Some won’t like foreigners, some do like foreigners and MOST will simply not care all too much either way – as long as you TRY to fit in well enough.
Is Japan a paradise? Hell no – Japanese are also *humans*, and just like anywhere else: Humans are a **bunch of dumbasses all around.**
The question is: **Do you want to live in this** ***particular culture*** **of human dumbasses? or don’t you?**
**-** You don’t get an option for non dumbass, I’m afraid.
Accepting this job offer and settling in Japan for a while is not a forced permanent commitment. If you end up not liking it here, you will always be able to leave.
Don’t worry too much about a future that has yet to come. You will be able to make choices regarding your future family when the time comes.
EDIT: I came to Japan in 2018 on a Working Holiday visa with no intention to stay more than one year. Some major life events happened to me while I was there and I decided that I wanted to stay. I had absolutely no idea about what my future here would be like.
Five years later, I’m married with a baby, a dog and a house and I’m 100% sure that I will never leave the country.
Keeping the future in sight is important, but it doesn’t have to influence 100% of your decisions, especially when you said that you do like living here. Give it a try and time will tell.
YOLO.
First off: level up your Japanese. Make it a PRIORITY. You say you’re a student—what’s your major? Are you taking formal classes? Most people don’t have the stick-to-it-iveness to learn on their own, even if they live in Japan. It’s very easy to wind up in a foreigner bubble.
Of course, you don’t HAVE to move permanently even if you stay long term. You can leave after 2 years, 5 years, or 20 years. Nobody’s gonna put a gun to your head and tell you to choose. That’s my advice: don’t act like you have to stick to a track. You can jump ship (this is a metaphor, please don’t actually jump off a ship) if it just doesn’t wind up working for you.
I’ve been both a student and an employee in Japan (Japanese company), so here are my two cents.
Like in every country in the world you’ll meet people who don’t like foreigners for stupid reasons but you’ll also meet people who’ll accept you. I’ve made great friends here.
I general, Japanese society values harmony so Japanese people usually avoid open conflict so people who don’t like foreigners will probably avoid you.
Looking for a job or an apartment can be hard as a foreigner but if a company is already willing to hire you, they can probably provide support.
I think not knowing Japanese is pretty limiting so it’s good that you’re working on that.
I don’t have kids so I can’t really comment on the bullying. It is a thing here and there are news about it every now and then but I don’t know exactly how frequent it is. It’s probably a bigger thing in places with less foreigners?
Better to try it and find out by yourself rather than refusing the opportunity because you’re afraid and regretting it later. It’s not like the job offer is a permanent commitment.
working here doesnt mean youre stuck here. you could quit and then move back to your home country.
*being “Japanese“ has nothing to do with your nationality and all to do with your ethnicity*
It’s good you realize this already.
There’s a white dude in my town who gave up his US passport and took on Japanese citizenship. He goes around telling people he’s a 日本人, much to their laughing and snickering behind his back.
I can’t advise on kids as I don’t have them, but generally it comes down to being honest with yourself. It’s one of the biggest clichés out there: “yeah, you can move to Japan, but you’ll never be accepted as Japanese”. If you subject that to even the slightest analysis, it falls apart. I’ve been here just shy of 20 years and have had permanent residence for about 7 or 8 years. I’m not Japanese. I never thought I was, nor did I ever claim to be nor want to be. I *have* made the effort to learn the language at least to an extent that I can engage in a regular lifestyle without too much trouble, and I’ve made the effort to learn about what kind of behaviour is and isn’t acceptable in Japan. I’m still not Japanese. Big deal. So what.
(You can turn that on its head too. “You’ll never be Japanese”. “Great, I don’t fancy the idea of hanging around the office until 9:30 at night with absolutely nothing to do because the section chief hasn’t gone home yet and if I go home before him I will bring permanent dishonour on my family and be ostracised for the rest of my working life”).
I actually see something like permanent residence as the best of both worlds. You could go for citizenship, but the main difference there is that you get the right to vote (like that makes the slightest difference in Japan) and you can’t be kicked out of the country if you do something stupid. I don’t plan on doing anything stupid, so PR is enough for me.
Anyway, you don’t have to make an all-or-nothing commitment to it. If you accept this job, you’ll likely have to change your visa status and the new one will probably be limited to 1, 3, or 5 years, and once it comes up for renewal you can see how you feel about living in Japan and act accordingly. If you do enjoy it, you can look at PR further down the line – and even that doesn’t lock you into being in Japan forever.
I mean, they have medical coverage. No one shoots up schools here. There is no tip toeing around the minefields of pronouns. Japan isn’t perfect but it sure as hell isn’t the states.
For the kids thing, I would think of it this way: would you rather have them maybe bullied (something that would probably be mitigated if they went to an international school), or probably shot and killed while simply trying to learn their times tables? Or at the very least subjected to regular lockdown drills where they’re terrified for their life?
It’s an easy answer for me. Japan is far from perfect, but I’ll take the gun control and healthcare here in the long term over moving back to the states.
my kids are coping fine, they look pretty much Japanese which helps but just the katakana name gives it away. I’m out in the inaka but haven’t experienced any problems…so far.
Japan lifer here. I arrived in 1990 with visions of a year or two drinking, ravaging the local girls, and perhaps teaching a class or two.
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Now facing retirement, married more than 30 years, grown adult son, it has been a helluva ride. I say go for it. Whatever happens, it will be a great experience.
As for worrying about bullying and so on, a lot of it has to do with the reaction of the parents. If you are urusaii parents, the school will take care of your kids a lot better. If you try to be quiet and do things “the Japanese way” then you may have more trouble.
As an example, our son had very little trouble in school. Just got into one scrap in the first grade with a local lad who just wouldn’t leave him alone. We spoke to the teacher about it prior, and she didn’t do much. I warned her that, where I come from, boys solve their problems by fighting, and that my son would never throw the first punch, but would definitely throw the second (and hopefully last). She sucked her teeth and said “datte datte” a lot. Well, the kid pushed my son again and got decked for it. Since that day though, they were actually friends at school. Boys just need to find their place in the pecking order. Don’t over-think something that may never happen.
As an aside, Japan is a great base for travelling and exploring the entire Asian continent. Lots of reasonable flights to sunny and tropical places.
When I first came to Japan I spoke no Japanese at all and had no real knowledge of this country. I came here specifically to meet someone in person that I had originally met online. Prior to that Japan was not a place I ever contemplated, much less ever imagined I’d be living in.
It took me several years to adjust to the culture and reach a point where I could communicate effectively on my own. It was frequently a very frustrating adjustment. Fortunately, I had my Japanese partner to help me navigate through the intricacies of life in Japan. I also joined a Buddhist temple after I started living here and they were also very helpful in helping me to adjust to life in Japan and also played an important role later when I applied for PR.
The key to having a good life in Japan, based on my own experiences, is to be able to communicate effectively in Japanese, to follow the cultural norms, and to get involved in your local community. Having Japanese friends and allies, and especially having a Japanese partner, can make a big difference in how you experience your life here.
Honeymoon phase. Check back to this question after 3 years. Most people break and start hating Japan by then. Get past that, then you’ll have a chance.
Also, put your Japanese to N1 or better. Don’t be like the ones who post “I’m decent in Japanese but I couldn’t understand x y z” here.
I’m going through the same thing myself, I wasn’t too concerned about it when I moved here, but then I met my girlfriend. I love her, we’d like to have kids in the future, but the thing is I’m from the US and she’s from the Philippines. They wouldn’t even be able to be *citizens* (without jumping through lots of hoops). Bullying for mixed kids isn’t bad here in Okinawa, but if a kid is 0% Japanese, I could imagine things are difficult, even if there’s no bullies (language barrier, etc). Speaking of the language barrier…even though I speak decent Japanese, I’m functionally illiterate. My girlfriend doesn’t live here (yet), so her Japanese is basically zero. It’s doable, but I’m thinking of not tying myself down yet until we’re sure.
Just give it a try if you’re curious. You can always go back whenever you like anyway. I promise that you would spend the rest of your life coping with the regret of “what if” otherwise.
Making a decision to take a job after graduation isn’t necessarily a lifetime commitment to stay in Japan permanently, so perhaps its best not to think of it like that.
As a long term (20+ years) resident of Japan who is raising kids here, in response to the specific concerns you raise:
1) Experience may vary, but bullying hasn’t really been a problem for my kids, both of whom go to regular Japanese schools. They seem pretty happy being raised here.
2) While “assimilation” might not be fully possible, its also not something that is necessary to have a fulfilling life here. Your goal should not be to become a Japanese person, your goal should be to find a place in life that makes you happy. While there are some downsides to being a perennial “outsider”, I’ve never really found that to be a barrier to leading a happy life here. Some people might find that to be so, but if you can learn the language, find a job that you enjoy doing and find people that you like spending time with there is no reason you can’t be happy here, I think.
First of all, congrats on the job offer without knowing much Japanese–I assume this means you have a desired skill, which is already a great start if true.
In terms of your future, your American passport is already a “get out of jail free” card of sorts, in that you don’t need to live here–you can leave at any time. If the company has the potential to set you up in a position with skills that’re transferrable outside of Japan, then it just comes down to jumping ship when/if the time comes.
Brushing up on your language skills is never a bad idea; worst-case scenario it could make the difference between making your life unbearably miserable or bad but bearable. It’ll definitely help with future relationships if that’s what you want.
Also, not my personal experience but I’ve known men who took their wives’ last name to help alleviate bullying in school. Not saying that you should do that, just saying it’s an option.
I find that my life is easier in Japan than in the U.S. and while the honeymoon period may be over, I still feel good about moving here. It was something I wanted to do since I was in high school and I’m really glad that I made that happen. If I had looked on the internet for advice I probably would have scared myself into not trying. When I travel or get into Japan hobbies I feel grateful to be here and it’s a little bit like the magic is back.
Bullying is not bad in the US?
You’re young.
You can move here, and a few years move somewhere else.
There’s nothing permanent about moving countries.
P.S. do invest time in the local language. That’s a solid advice for any country though.
P.P.S. what’s your career plan?
Don’t overthink things. You’re young. The world, Japan, the company you work for, you, will change. You can’t know the future. Just take each opportunity as it comes and see where it leads. Other doors will open up, and new opportunities will arise.
You can always leave Japan or the job if it doesn’t suit your life at the time.
All the problems you say are prevalent anywhere. All countries have its problems, including Japan. They’re just more insular so outsiders hear less about them.
Work out in your career where you make the most money. Where’s the better cost of living post income. Where’s the career prospects. What’s the quality of life. Are you ok being viewed as an outsider always, by the way that happens most places. You think the French will ever think you’re French just because you have their passport?
Bullying. Yea maybe. Again all countries have that, but plenty go on to have good lives. Bigger question is do you want them to have a life here. Circles back to first set of questions.
Your a student and I assume your in your early 20s, the next 10 years give or take are going to be a hell of a ride of ups and downs and the
Majority of it won’t really matter until your in your 30s when you have enough experience to qualify for a comfortable lifestyle.
Really it’s either gonna be a bunch of fun or a bunch of grinding in your 20s. Not saying you wont develop skills because you should be doing that but don’t look at it so seriously.
Nothing can be undone, nothing is permanent. Except babies, stds, tattoos, death, … well you get the point I hope – you can always go back to the US if you need to.
Regarding not being Japanese, this is perhaps true to a certain extent (as nationality and ethnicity are the same for most Japanese), but a lot of people make this a Japan-specific issue when to be honest you’ll face in wherever you move outside of American. I’m from England and you could live there for the next 50 years and you’d never be considered English or British eithe. Sure, most Brits have less of a hang up around ethnicity, but the moment you open your mouth..different story. If you move somewhere as an adult, you will always stick out in some way. This is something that every immigrant has to make peace with.
For Japan specifically, as others have said, feeling like you fit in is heavily dependent on your language skills. I’ve been here 7 years and speak and write Japanese fluently (though definitely not perfectly) and I definitely feel like I’m ‘in’ at both work and with friends etc. The other day at work we had a meeting, and when one of the other foreigners who doesn’t speak Japanese is there we do it in English, but he was away that day so the MD looked around the room (of 8 people, including white-British me) and said “oh it’s all Japanese this morning so let’s just do it in Japanese”. Obviously I’m not Japanese and never will be, but because they can speak to me as though I were, I get treated as one of them. This has happened several times. Of course, when I meet anyone new then I get the tourist treatment. Most people stop when you reply in decent Japanese though. Well, some old people don’t haha.
So sure, you’ll never be Japanese in the same way they are, but you can fit in and feel integrated at work and with friends/local community.
some people may find being an alien to be a rather good thing (i.e. this makes you special)
not able to assimilate? well, it’s not like we are in the 18th century or something – in some places you may be a foreigner, and can go on a street, and no one will pay attention
ultimately, your quality of life would depend on how well you can speak japanese, and whether you are able to financially sustain yourself long term
To each his own. You need to cultivate a sense of belonging no matter where you end up in this world. Creating a community that you can relate to will be up to you entirely. Most importantly, embracing Japanese culture here in all it’s strange and wonderful dimensions is crucial.
Like others have said, you can certainly spend a few years here working that dream job and learning whether the culture and quality of life here is a match for you.
But I would definitely caution you to figure that out before you do take steps towards being here ‘permanently’ (married with kids and a mortgage, etc). I’ve met expats who have spent their entire adult lives here who have the biggest chip on their shoulder because they have assimilated in every possible way and they will still be treated like an outsider for ever.
Basically you need to figure out how much your mental health and well-being is tied to the sense of belonging in local society. If you spend a few more years here and find that perpetual outsider-status really bothers you, do not assume it will get better. If you ignore it temporarily and decide to move here permanently you will likely become one of those bitter and jaded expats.
Well you obviously went to school in the US. Please don’t tell me you think bullying doesn’t exist in schools there? Bullying exists in every society, there’s nothing weird about it existing in Japan.
What IS weird is US schools having active shooter drills. If you were thinking about disqualifying your future life in Japan based upon hypothetical children you might have, I think you need to have a strong look at the dangers they face in general living in the US versus Japan.
And as far as fitting in, I am guessing that you are white? Ask African-Americans, Latinos, LGBTQ people etc. etc. how smoothly they fit into life in America and you might be surprised at the answers.