tldr; saw a case of a guy arrested on “suspicion” of a crime who already got punished by his company and society. there is no “innocent until proven guilty” in japan?
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This came from a discussion after receiving a letter from Yamada Bee Farm (made a point card once with them), a (copied) handwritten letter from the president apologising for one of their directives, and his eldest son, after being arrested for indirect 盗撮. He was stripped of all his charges on the company and related companies, and all stocks whatsoever. Basically: “sorry my son is a creep, he is done now and has nothing to do with us anymore”.
So I go online and search about this guy. Very recently (last month) he was arrested on suspicious of violating a 条例 in Tokyo about 盗撮. Apparently, he met a 27yo female on SNS to which he did papakatsu and paid her money to take pictures on the dressing rooms of female bathrooms. Other sites also add that he sent indecent videos to a 17yo girl.
Im not defending those acts and if he is guilty he should pay, but I am surprised about the justice system here and the FACTS:
\-He as arrested on “suspicioun” of paying a girl to do a crime.-His name and face goes public and he already is stripped of all his honor and assets and job.How can this be ok?
Is not a “caught red handed” crime, a violent one, not a direct one, and his life is already ruined. I found sites from “criminal otakus” that already investigated all his life and uploaded pictures of his school, facebook and SNS, maps of his residence and more. What if that woman in spite made a false acussation? (冤罪)? Even if he is found innocent, he already got punished for life.
There is no “innocent until proven guilty” in japan? Is the media so irresponsible as to show faces and personal details of suspects still under investigation? Are the companies so shitty as to completely ruin a career just on speculation?
In my born country media never shared specifics of suspects, and even when showing footage of the arrest they blur the faces. Also because it can invalidate witnesses reports, so they required to.
Idk, I naturalized recently. This is like if Im stopped by the police and they ask me for zairyu card, I say “i dont have one, im a citizen”, and they dont believe me, i can be “arrested on suspicion of overstaying”. An arrest is an arrest, and it becomes a fact independently if im released later. My company fill fire me, my wife leave me, will have a record and could not join a lot of jobs, run for office or be a public servant. A life ruined because a cop made a mistake and society already judges immediately.It was always like this?
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Hey, idk why so many people throw kanji/romaji words with a simple translation into the middle of English text in this sub. It’s kinda pretentious and I know there are bound to be a lot of people who can’t read it.
>arrested for indirect 盗撮
Taking nonconsensual pictures?
>violating a 条例
Violating a rule?
>to which he did papakatsu
He became her sugar daddy?
>What if that woman in spite made a false acussation? (冤罪)?
You literally typed the English word right before this one. Why?
It’s not really all that hard to keep the post consistent. Just comes off as though you’re trying to prove you know some Japanese words, but I guess that’s par for the course around here anyway…
If you’re a citizen and they don’t believe you and arrest you, it will very quickly be figured out and no charges will be laid on you. You can also sue the police department and make sure that the officer involved never sees any action outside of an inaka koban. This has been done many times, both by naturalized foreigners and even Japanese citizens who the police thought were foreigners.
Japan’s pretty famous for being a “guilty until proven innocent” country.
Speaking descriptively, maybe the shaming via media is the corrective tool, and it’s what keeps others from doing the same thing, or more effective than privacy-protected prosecution. Kind of like DPRK, where someone does something wrong, and several generations of family are sent to prison camps?
**Edit:** I’m not condoning it, and in no way support that happening. I’m just offering a description of why it’s there–a guess as to why it works to insure that people behave.
There’s a similar effect for how drunk driving is punished–it’s not just the driver that’s arrested, the other people in the car can also be fined (for letting the driver drive), and the place they were drinking can be held responsible, too.
In Japan it’s all about fear of losing face. Japanese always care much more about what others around think about them rather than about what they want because collectivism mentality. Public shame is worse than death. Losing face = losing trust you can never get back so your life is basically ruined forever. Also here it’s “guilty until proven otherwise”, unlike how it’s in the west. Farted the wrong way? Guilty, stigmatized and ostracized!
Might as well go into woods and become a hermit. Unless you’re a normal human being not a slave and stop caring about stupid things like other’s people’s opinions
I mean this is similar to the US where if you’re even suspected of rape or sexual assaults, then you’re usually canceled. But you’re right, Japan takes it even further since obviously the shame level here is even greater lol.
Also, don’t get arrested in Japan. Just don’t.
>there is no “innocent until proven guilty” in japan?
Absolutely not. It’s guilty until proven innocent or just guilty. There’s your first mistake.
1) First of all: not just in Japan. Kevin Spacey is a good example, but not just celebrities.
2) Second of all: in Japan the police will not publicize the news until they have either proof or they have a confession. Media is another thing, but then again, that is the same in other countries
3) Police tend to avoid arresting people on suspicions. This means you are arrested is extremely likely that you will end up in court. Remember the black widow lady who poisoned multiple husbands? They did not arrest her right away but told her then husband in private to avoid being poisoned while they gathered evidence. I doubt your country keeps everything hush hush until the court has finished. In Japan the police tends to extend part of the duties that are done by a court case.
4) Yes, it is crazy. Being arrested and held for over a week without being able to contact family is absolutely insane. As you said, many people lose their job even before they are convicted. This conveniently gives companies also the time to absolve them of whoever ends up arrested. The way around this is to call a lawyer or family immediately upon arrest and have them arrange a cover story.
It is a cultural difference and I guess it is also rooted into their heritage. So many Japanese people seeing luck (or nepotism) as merit. There is this inherent acceptance of people deserving their fate. Catholic Christianity for example has very strong tendencies of right vs wrong. This is a sin, all other religions are wrong. Japan does not have that.
Reading this hurts my brain.
What are you trying to say?
We live in a capitalist world
The moment a single news can make a big company lose money, it is the duty of the company to take care of said issue. Otherwise shareholder won’t be happy at all.
That is, that’s all. Truth and lie have no interest here. The point is to cut yourself from bad PR because losing money is a big no no in capitalism.
I started looking some site news which have comment sections… its crazy how people are now blaming all other employees and the company as a whole.
I can see how the company would do such unfair thing just to save itself from bad PR, but people is really that stupid? What has to do a single daddy’s son’s creepiness with the hard working lady on the honey store? What bad have the poor bees done? Is not like the company supports criminal acts so its not a values matter as of “i wont buy them more honey because I dont want to support perverts”. Its hilarious.
Show me one country in the world where a company will not fire you for making the news as a crime suspect. Assuming it course you’re not top management but a normal employee.
WOAH. Innocent until proven guilty is a VERY western concept, very much a British concept in law (which is why almost every colony has it in their legal structures), and not practiced universally on this globe.
I mean fuck, even today cancel culture (the real one, not the shit in the incels bitch about) where you’re dragged through the coals before proven wrong is a thing where the presumption of innocence does not exist.
Keep in mind you’re in Japan where defamation is something you can sue for even if what you’re saying is right, assuming it caused undue harm to the individual and your intent malicious.
An arrest is not an arrest.
False arrest is a thing, and if you’re arrested after telling them you’re a citizen, they’re in deep shit. You’re company, and anyone else who takes action against you will be held accountable when the dust settles. You may never have to work again.
In the real world, if asked for the card, and you say you’re a citizen, the cop will most likely drop it at that point, like required, or they’ll sort it before an arrest is made, and the cop will still be in deep shit.
Personally, I think that is the case around the world.
Unless you have a lot of money, it is usually guilty until proven guilty.
There are a lot of cases where someone was under suspicion and a month later was proven to be innocent, but the damage was already done.
Even people who have spent years in prison on charges that they didn’t commit, are still treated like criminals.
We think that the moment we see you on the tv for something bad, you did and you are a bad person. But we don’t plan to actually look into the case, or check back to see if you actually did it, so you are just forever a bad person.
Basically, suspicion in Japan = Guilty. The police don’t take action for ‘western type’ suspicion