Hi! This is pretty important, so let me know if you know something different from what I know.
I will keep the details of the job mostly secret since I do not want to create problems for anyone, as low as the chances are. All I can say is that we are talking about a seasonal job (November-March), which “could” be extended.
So, the idea is that I was told at the interview that, since I have to start working in November, I will most probably have to come to Japan with a travel visa(or no visa in my case – 90 days visa exempt). Since the COE takes up to 3 months.
This means that they want me to start working before the visa is done and switch while in Japan. Once I have the visa, I should get paid for what I have worked before that. I would get paid in cash before that if I run out of money. Like a stipend.
To my knowledge:
– Working without the right residence status is illegal
– You can’t change the COE to a visa in Japan, you have to come back to your country, so I can’t get a visa either way while in Japan.
– There is a chance of not even obtaining the COE in the first place. (the field I have graduated in is not really related to the job)
So far it sounds be an easy decline since it should be illegal. I know.
The thing is, I was told that there are some “exchange programs” (“such as Workaway, but not actually Workaway”) that would keep it all legal. Meaning I could work within such an exchange program as long as I am only getting paid once I have a visa. Only receiving informal stipends to live meanwhile.
I am seeing a lot of red flags here, but maybe my knowledge is lacking.
Is there actually something of the sort? Maybe for special cases? Or is the employer just desperate and wants to risk it. I would guess that the risk doesn’t only fall on the employer, but also on myself. So I only want to agree if it is legal.
If you know anything about this practice, please let me know. This job would be a pretty important step towards me fully moving to Japan. But only if it is safe.
Thank you!
6 comments
This is a copy of your post for archive/search purposes.
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**Is my potential employer proposing borderline illegal immigration or am I just uninformed?**
Hi! This is pretty important, so let me know if you know something different from what I know.
I will keep the details of the job mostly secret since I do not want to create problems for anyone, as low as the chances are. All I can say is that we are talking about a seasonal job (November-March), which “could” be extended.
So, the idea is that I was told at the interview that, since I have to start working in November, I will most probably have to come to Japan with a travel visa(or no visa in my case – 90 days visa exempt). Since the COE takes up to 3 months.
This means that they want me to start working before the visa is done and switch while in Japan. Once I have the visa, I should get paid for what I have worked before that. I would get paid in cash before that if I run out of money. Like a stipend.
To my knowledge:
– Working without the right residence status is illegal
– You can’t change the COE to a visa in Japan, you have to come back to your country, so I can’t get a visa either way while in Japan.
– There is a chance of not even obtaining the COE in the first place. (the field I have graduated in is not really related to the job)
So far it sounds be an easy decline since it should be illegal. I know.
The thing is, I was told that there are some “exchange programs” (“such as Workaway, but not actually Workaway”) that would keep it all legal. Meaning I could work within such an exchange program as long as I am only getting paid once I have a visa. Only receiving informal stipends to live meanwhile.
I am seeing a lot of red flags here, but maybe my knowledge is lacking.
Is there actually something of the sort? Maybe for special cases? Or is the employer just desperate and wants to risk it. I would guess that the risk doesn’t only fall on the employer, but also on myself. So I only want to agree if it is legal.
If you know anything about this practice, please let me know. This job would be a pretty important step towards me fully moving to Japan. But only if it is safe.
Thank you!
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You already know the answer.
Working without work authorization is illegal.
Working in exchange for the promise of future payment is still working. It’s just also a labor violation, because you aren’t allowed to delay paying your employees by three months.
To work in Japan, you need a status of residence that permits working, such as a work visa, a spouse visa, a dependent visa (part time), a student visa (part time with permission), a working holiday visa, etc.
Yes, they are trying to encourage you to conspire to commit the crime.
No matter which way it’s sliced, any kind of work that generates income for you and/or someone else requires the proper working visa.
Any excuses they’re making about legal loopholes regarding random companies they found on the internet are bollocks.
If they’re willing to break the law in this way, they’re probably willing to do other things, such as not paying you at all because you’d be an illegal immigrant.
Find a better company that does things properly. Don’t land yourself in the shit for no good reason, man.
Not borderline illegal at all. Fully and completely illegal.
As long as someone is making money off you, you need a visa, even if they’re not paying you.
In theory this is not allowed. In practice, it’s not uncommon for tourist visas to get changed into working visas even though this is not supposed to happen.
People do this all the time and it’s unofficially tolerated but not condoned. It’s also not legal but generally not enforced unless it’s egregious or it’s being enforced second hand.
It really comes down to how much you care about the letter of the law.
What you are describing is definitely illegal, and of course very shady that they would suggest it.
What does sometime happen is people come to Japan as a visitor while a CoE is in progress, look for housing, familiarize themselves with the area, then when the CoE is approved they get it processed in another country and come back. They would only start actually working once they are on the proper status.
But that is much different than what you are describing.