My friend and I both live in Japan but he has lived in Japan for about 6 years and for me about 1 year. When I first met him he told me he is fluent in Japanese at first I thought oh cool it’s cool to meet someone who was fluent my own japanese ability is around N2 level but, I also understand I need a lot of improvement I don’t consider myself fluent at all but, when my friend speaks his Japanese is horrible the pronunciation, grammar, and word choice is completely wrong but insist his Japanese is better than mine and everyone else even people who are properly fluent. Many of our japanese friends don’t understand him but try to stay polite Infront of him but when he leaves they often ask me what did he say? We can’t understand him. How do I tell him that he needs to work on his Japanese without being an ass about it? He always tries to correct me when I speak Japanese Infront of other japanese people even though what I am saying is 100% correct it frustrates the shit out of me.
Edit: he is American/Canadian. I agree with most of the comments I should just avoid bringing up with him.
Note: I’m sorry if my written English is poor. I have never been good at expressing myself when I write. I wouldn’t make this criticism towards him if he was honest about his own abilities when it comes to Japanese.
28 comments
Your friend sounds like a douche, I doubt you will be friends this time next year. Nobody is going to be blaming you for how stupid he is, as long as you’re not vouching for him.
There are enough fish in the sea where you don’t need to waste time on childish folk.
Sounds like an idiot. Jus tell him straight and be as blunt as possible. It’s the best way.
Maybe don’t hang out with obnoxious assholes that frustrate the shit out of you?
Sounds like ya need a new friend if he’s that much of a meat head to you. I speak really thicc Jaken and no one understands my Japanese other than people that live in the area of me haha
Arrogant people are too stubborn to convince right.
Is he British? Please note that this question is strictly for science.
He will get humbled by life eventually. I’ve been in your shoes and while I know it’s frustrating, ultimately it is best to not get involved. The English speaking community here is small and it’s best to avoid starting fires. Just enjoy the eye rolling with your Japanese friends and know at some point he will be force fed a slice of humble pie
>How do I tell him that he needs to work on his Japanese without being an ass about it?
My opinion: you don’t. Japanese pissing contests are a trap people fall into when they desperately need to believe they’re Japaning better than everyone else. Telling your friend to improve his Japanese is you choosing to play the sucker’s game. The only way to win is not to play.
Get your Japanese to a point you are happy with and live your best life here. Life is too short and mandatory overtime is too long to get stuck on the little things.
Among foreigners, there’s a sizeable contingent with huge chips on their shoulder because they came to Japan, their lives didn’t turn out the way they wanted, they’re in sexless, unhappy marriages, they lost their kids, they get beat down daily in a dead end jobs, and their one accomplishment in life is speaking the language native to the country they live in.
They feel the need to insert this anywhere and everywhere – offering their opinion and disdain for regular Joe’s who either choose to prioritize their time/accomplishments toward other pursuits, or who simply haven’t reached the level that these chuds think is respectable.
I see it on threads here constantly. Someone writing something and basically just saying;
“I’ve been here for a few years and my Japanese is alright, I tried to do X. I’m thinking of asking my partner to join me but wanted opinions if this situation seems strange”
Which is essentially the bat signal for these losers to enter the thread, completely ignore the question, and berate OP about how he has to rely on his partner.
The funny thing being, no one is taking a hardline stance here. No one disagrees with these people. Learning the language of the place you live in is a good thing – but different people prioritize things differently and some people choose to focus on their careers/skills/kids/whatever. Ignoring someones personal circumstances so you can judge them is a massively shitty thing to do.
I guess what I’m getting at is everyone should just mind their own fucking business and stop being self righteous buttholes.
I’ve encountered a few language snobs among the expats here myself. I generally just ignore them. If your friend’s Japanese is really that bad, though, you should be honest with him.
A classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
To be fair, when I was first in Japan I thought my Japanese was pretty good since I could chat to people and generally make myself understood. The longer I’m here the more I am aware of my limitations and even feel like I’m not as good as I once (thought I) was.
There are still grammatical areas I have to think about, and don’t even get me started on technical language. Oh, and I have the reading age of a 10-year old.
If it were me in your place, I’d just quietly ignore the issue, quietly knowing what you know. There’s satisfaction in that.
Don’t participate in his Japanese education unless he asks you to.
For the other annoying thing, prepare some scripts for when he gives you notes.
Like, “I prefer to have my Japanese corrected by native speakers.” Then turn to your friends and say, please, if you ever don’t understand what I’m saying, ask me and help me do better!
Because there’s a likelyhood they joke about you behind your back, too.
But anyway, try to concentrate on the fun aspects of this friend group. If it’s not that fun, though, time to add some more friends.
N2 after just an year is super impressive OP!
1. Stop hanging out together
2. Don’t care about his Japanese
3. Find friends that respect you
Get a Japanese friend to tell him that your Japanese is much better than his. Watch him get extremely flustered and upset. Because clearly he bases his identity on his so-called fluency, so it will be perceived as a direct personal attack.
“I noticed you’re correcting my Japanese a lot when we’re hanging out. I appreciate that you’re trying to help me improve, but it’s really not necessary. If I do want to pointers on speaking Japanese, I’ll let you know.”
The people with the most outlandish levels of confidence in their Japanese are generally the ones who speak almost unintelligibly, much like your friend. IMO it’s like a specialized case of Dunning-Kruger effect.
As far as how to deal with your friend, the best thing is to distance yourself from him. He lacks social skills and will be annoying to everyone.
I, as a Japanese, sometimes come across people like him. This is because we Japanese tend to say things like ‘You speak like a native speaker!’ more casually and frequently than others. Most people typically recognize this as a polite but insincere compliment that makes them feel good, but some might not notice it at all.
I don’t know where he’s from. My guess is that he’s surrounded by his Japanese friends who always agree with him, and he may not realize he’s incorrect.
I suggest ignoring him and letting him do as he pleases. He’s unlikely to change at his age, and his Japanese friends probably don’t mind much since they enjoy having a ‘foreign’ friend. Changing them is a challenging task; unfortunately, it’s easier for you to join a different community.
Why does it matter that you and your friend have different thoughts on what is considered “fluent”?
Why do you need to tell him that he needs to improve? Being a little overly confident is a great way to improve because so many speakers are too shy to get out there and mingle.
If he improperly corrects your Japanese, he sounds like a someone you should hang around with less. If he is a good friend you don’t want to loose, just tell him to stop.
Don’t correct him. Someone will point it out one day, like in a job interview.
Some people are just like that. I used to work with a guy that probably spoke the same level your friend does. He was convinced he was one of the few white people who could speak Japanese, and was sure a TV show would want him to join.
I wouldn’t bother pointing out the shortcomings in your friend’s Japanese. He most likely wouldn’t pay it any heed if he is as arrogant as you have described. However, what I would take issue with is his rude habit of correcting your Japanese in front of others. I would tell him there’s no need to do so and that whomever you’re talking with would most likely let you know if you weren’t making yourself understood.
To offer an anecdote of my own, many years ago, I had a very casual acquaintance (a friend of a friend) who was very much like your friend. To be fair, she had excellent Japanese, much better than mine at the time. However, most of her knowledge of the language was gained from a textbook as she had majored in Japanese at university in the U.S., and had never lived in Japan prior to coming on the JET Program. She loved to try and impress foreigners and Japanese alike with her pedantic displays of linguistic superiority.
She once tried to say that all the shops, department stores, restaurants, etc. in the country with signs indicating the cashier/payment area with お会計 (okaikei) were wrong. According to some obscure grammar point she had studied, the honorific “お/o” when prefixed on 会計 should actually be spelled and read as “ご/go” thus becoming ご会計 (gokaikei).
I pointed out that I highly doubted all the stores, hospitals, restaurants, etc. across the country would universally make such an error. I suggested that perhaps she had made a mistake, or what she had learned was some antiquated linguistic point that was no longer used in modern Japanese. Let’s just say my suggestion did not go over well, and I was no longer included in outings with my friend if her friend was also going to be attending.
I am amazed people thinking their Japanese is good is ever a thing.
Unless your friend is of Asian heritage and already can read some kanjis, my experience is that Japanese being so different from any western language usually it would humble them. It takes some chobham level thick skin to claim being better than others.
I’m going to agree with all the existing comments and add a new perspective.
> even though what I am saying is 100% correct
This sentiment is probably similar to what lies at the center of your friend’s misplaced confidence.
When he “corrects” you, you feel as though you aren’t in need of correction. This is because you view his Japanese level as lower than yours and you think he couldn’t possibly know more than you.
The reality is, you are both non-native, and there might be some phrases or words that he knows correctly and you do not… and vice-versa. Maybe you know more than him, but the sentiment you are holding in that moment is probably exactly the same as your friend.
I think both of you need to calm down and stop taking Japanese so seriously. If your friend makes a mistake, correct him. If he thinks you made a mistake, let him correct you and say “thanks!” and double check it later, and when you find out you were right, discard his advice and forget about it. Next time he brings it up (if at all) then maybe have that link ready in your bookmarks to share with him if you have time. Ideally he would see that and go “wow, I didn’t know that!”
If you guys can’t do that, there is a lack of maturity in one or both sides of your relationship. Some people are just not compatible and maybe maintaining distance is the better option.
Sounds like this guy got 日本語上手’d a few times and let it get to his head. :
Also, OP, “our friend circles overlap” is usually just an excuse to avoid confrontation or to simply avoid avoiding them. Nothing stopping you from just being “busy” whenever you risk finding yourself alone with this person. Am sure you can find a way to reduce your interactions if you try 🙂
I knew a guy like this and it was so funny – he honestly believed he was speaking fluent Japanese and went at it with all the confidence in the world but everyone around him was like ‘wtf is he even saying’. I would tell him I couldn’t understand a word of what he said so he thought my Japanese was shit. That said he was a great wingman so it evens out in the end.
I have an experience from the other side. I spent two years of full-time Japanese study on coming to Japan and was pretty confident of my ability. My first job depended on my Japanese reading ability but after a couple of weeks my Secretary, a Japanese graduate of a famous women’s university, pleaded with me to stop speaking Japanese as it was making her feel ill. I was literally shocked but apparently my accent and vocabulary, acquired in Kobe, sounded very effeminate. It was making me sound like a homosexual. This was 50 years ago, when homosexuals were NOT treated with the respect and understanding that they are today. My language school had only women teachers, so I had unknowingly picked up feminine accents and vocabulary! That was pretty humbling, I can tell you! Enough to stop me from ever boasting of my abilities.
Do what I do when I find out a friend is annoying. I just start farting every now and then when we’re hanging out, eventually they stop coming around all together.
Everyone saying “cut him off!!!” Lmao
Reddit loves to fucking annihilate people eh?
Look, if you enjoy hanging with this guy, you’re either gonna have to grin and bear this character flaw, or confront him and hopefully move on.
Maybe you don’t have to tell him his Japanese sucks, but if his corrections erk you, consider communicating that you find these remarks condescending.